Most likely, unfortunately, whatever nVidia GPU is in the MacBook won't be that much better than the X3100. Unless it is at least an nVidia 8400 but that seems unlikely.
Are you sure about that? The X3100 really isn't great. Whilst the nVidia integrated units still don't compare to the dedicated counterparts, I was under the impression that they were still a vast improvement over Intel's offerings.
Don't suppose you have any links to comparisons between Intel and nVidia integrated GPU performance?
Are you sure about that? The X3100 really isn't great. Whilst the nVidia integrated units still don't compare to the dedicated counterparts, I was under the impression that they were still a vast improvement over Intel's offerings.
Don't suppose you have any links to comparisons between Intel and nVidia integrated GPU performance?
Now, the X3100 is far below, look at the 3DMark06 benchmark which shows X3100 as having only 500 or so 3DMark06 points.
The issue, as I suggest, is that even if you look at the nVidia 8400 M it's theoretically twice as good as the X3100... at about 1000 3DMark06 points... However, this is not a good 3DMark06 score.
For smooth graphics, gaming and say hardware-accelerated GPGPU stuff, you'd need to look at the 3DMark06 score of around 3000 points at least, going into 2009.
That's the level of the 8600M GT.
The next big question before we go into the 8400M , 9400M , etc etc. is right now, Intel Integrated is not supported by a lot of the new Mac games. GPGPU stuff, well... Will Nvidia mobile GPUs have the same issues? Can I play Command&Conquer3 on my new MacBook? That could be the more pertinent question for the new MacBook GPUs. Mac gaming.
Update:
When talking about the 9-series Nvidia mobile GPUs, things look a bit more promising. It would be very agressive but if new MacBooks had a 9300 mobile GPU, that would be pretty sweet, if all current Mac games are supported. We're talking 50% of a current MacBook Pro performance, which is not bad, if there was 128MB VRAM (even if it was DDR2).
MacBooks: nVidia 8200 - evolutionary improvement from X3100.
Option B
MacBooks: nVidia 8400 or better, then we're talking. But we need to know how current 3D Mac games are supported.
Option C
MacBooks: nVidia 9100 or 9200... Interesting, but same concern as Option B.
Option D
MacBooks: nVidia 9300 or better, should be looking good. High possibility that MacBook becomes an overall mainstream Mac gaming platform if this is the case. In 2009, MacBook will likely be the dominant Mac sold, regardless of the video card in it. If it *is* an nVidia 9300 or better, and all the latest Mac games are supported, it will actually be a big deal. Throw in a bit of OpenCL/ GPGPU/ etc. and it would be impressive.
MacBooks: nVidia 9300 or better, should be looking good. High possibility that MacBook becomes an overall mainstream Mac gaming platform if this is the case. In 2009, MacBook will likely be the dominant Mac sold, regardless of the video card in it. If it *is* an nVidia 9300 or better, and all the latest Mac games are supported, it will actually be a big deal. Throw in a bit of OpenCL/ GPGPU/ etc. and it would be impressive.
Nvidia's as-yet unreleased new mobile chipset for Intel processors will have two integrated graphics cores, called 9300 and 9400. They probably will only differ in clock speed, and probably won't be as fast (if you can call it that) as even the 8400. Nvidia likes to play name games.
As for performance, Apple would be very conservative with the driver (favoring stability over performance) and probably underclock the GPU core for thermal reasons. So if Apple were to use this, it would likely be only about twice as powerful as the current X3100.
Like I said in a different thread, I give this Nvidia chipset thing a 50/50 chance of happening. Prepare to not be surprised either way.
MacBooks: nVidia 8200 - evolutionary improvement from X3100.
Option B
MacBooks: nVidia 8400 or better, then we're talking. But we need to know how current 3D Mac games are supported.
Option C
MacBooks: nVidia 9100 or 9200... Interesting, but same concern as Option B.
Option D
MacBooks: nVidia 9300 or better, should be looking good. High possibility that MacBook becomes an overall mainstream Mac gaming platform if this is the case. In 2009, MacBook will likely be the dominant Mac sold, regardless of the video card in it. If it *is* an nVidia 9300 or better, and all the latest Mac games are supported, it will actually be a big deal. Throw in a bit of OpenCL/ GPGPU/ etc. and it would be impressive.
Option E
MacBooks: Go with Montevina's X4500. I think this is the most likely option.
MacBooks: Go with Montevina's X4500. I think this is the most likely option.
That should have probably been Option A.
Like I said, I give it a 50/50 chance of Intel or Nvidia. You think GM45 is more likely, and that wouldn't surprise me.
But here is why I think an Nvidia chipset is plausible: because it would (maybe) shut up two different groups of internet forum complainers who claim, truthfully or not, that they aren't buying Macbooks until their grievance is addressed.
The first group is people who have been complaining about integrated graphics ever since Apple went Intel. Never mind that an Nvidia chipset would be an IGP, or that it would only be marginally faster than X4500. The Macbook tech specs page would say "Geforce 9300" and that's good enough for people who don't know any better.
The second group of people are the whiny babies who cling to their 12" Powerbooks. The black Macbook wasn't good enough for them because it was plastic. The MBA wasn't good enough for them because it didn't have enough ports. Well, now they may get a 13" aluminum laptop with Geforce graphics.
I do. Or actually don't ... which is the important thing my dear Watson.
Take that PNG file into Photoshop, do a Hue/Saturation and adjust the Lightness to +33. Notice something missing? The bottom part of a laptop. If you look at a current MBP or MB directly from the back with the screen up at exactly 90 degree, you always see the bottom/keyboard part of the laptop where the heat vents are sticking down below the line of the bottom of the screen about 1/4-inch.
That is missing on this "screen".
Four possibilities:
1. It's just a comp that looked cool to design and isn't a shot of any actual hardware.
2. Apple Photoshopped out the bottom part of the laptop to make the screen look cool.
3. Apple has somehow lowered the screen at the back of the laptop with a new hinge system (making it somehow flush with the base of the laptop, i.e., it would touch the table surface it was sitting on.)
4. Or the tinhat idea ... That's the back of a tablet.
Anyone else come up with another possibility?
EDIT - 5. Could simply be a new closed laptop shot directly down with the hinge at bottom (otherwise the Apple logo is upside down). Just thought of that possibility. Any other time Apple's shot a closed laptop?
I have read that the photos show a change from DVI to Mini-DVI ports. That may just be for the MB, but if it is also for the MBPro, does anyone know if there is any problems or resolution limitations to the mini-DVI port?
Like I said, I give it a 50/50 chance of Intel or Nvidia. You think GM45 is more likely, and that wouldn't surprise me.
But here is why I think an Nvidia chipset is plausible: because it would (maybe) shut up two different groups of internet forum complainers who claim, truthfully or not, that they aren't buying Macbooks until their grievance is addressed.
The first group is people who have been complaining about integrated graphics ever since Apple went Intel. Never mind that an Nvidia chipset would be an IGP, or that it would only be marginally faster than X4500. The Macbook tech specs page would say "Geforce 9300" and that's good enough for people who don't know any better.
The second group of people are the whiny babies who cling to their 12" Powerbooks. The black Macbook wasn't good enough for them because it was plastic. The MBA wasn't good enough for them because it didn't have enough ports. Well, now they may get a 13" aluminum laptop with Geforce graphics.
Latest AppleInsider says 9300 or 9400. Name games or not, that's pretty impressive. Like I said. If one can play Command&Conquer3 smooth enough on a MacBook, that's going to be huge, graphically, and OpenCL/ GPGPU wise ... The 9300 does about 2000 3DMark06's, lets say, on the actual MacBook, around a minimum of 1500 3DMark06's -- that's really not bad for a mobile.
So I do agree, it will shut up a lot of people. A discrete GPU. Discrete VRAM. 1280x800 rich 3D Mac games. Fast GPGPU operations. Aluminium, light, with enough ports, optical drive. The Mac gaming industry will definitely be key if the 9300 shows up. They've *got* to make all their games as compatible as possible. The Radeon 2400 in iMacs is actually not that great, so the 9300 is not that far behind.
I have read that the photos show a change from DVI to Mini-DVI ports. That may just be for the MB, but if it is also for the MBPro, does anyone know if there is any problems or resolution limitations to the mini-DVI port?
I don't think you can do Dual-Link over MiniDVI so doubt the MBP would get them. There should be enough case space on a MBP anyway. If they can't find the space the designers are just being lazy.
When is apple thinking of making the 14 Oct keynote public? Like putting a note on there home site? maybe in the news? I can't seem to find anything there.
When is apple thinking of making the 14 Oct keynote public? Like putting a note on there home site? maybe in the news? I can't seem to find anything there.
Apple events for selected media only are almost *never* announced publicly on the Apple website. At the conclusion of the 14 Oct event, then the Apple website will be updated to fully reflect all new products/ changes.
So besides hanging on every liveblog update from TUAW or AI, just check back the Apple.com website at around 14 Oct Tuesday Afternoon (US Pacific Time)... All will be revealed then.
In the meantime, we continue to go crazy OH THE INSANITY... THERE GOES NEXT FEW DAYS OF SLEEEEEEP.
introducing the iPhone X ... with a physical sliding keypad to please those with phat phingers
? that is a joke, right?
When I first saw the Apple invite, I thought "No double-guessing what this event is about". Usually, Apple are subtle about it but it's still obvious what's going to happen and yet people come up with ridiculous predictions. "Not this time" I thought, surely. How could they have been more blatant? This event is about laptops! Full stop! End of story!
Apple events for selected media only are almost *never* announced publicly on the Apple website. At the conclusion of the 14 Oct event, then the Apple website will be updated to fully reflect all new products/ changes.
So besides hanging on every liveblog update from TUAW or AI, just check back the Apple.com website at around 14 Oct Tuesday Afternoon (US Pacific Time)... All will be revealed then.
In the meantime, we continue to go crazy OH THE INSANITY... THERE GOES NEXT FEW DAYS OF SLEEEEEEP.
I think he was asking when the video stream will be posted. Late Tuesday night? Maybe Wednesday.
I think he was asking when the video stream will be posted. Late Tuesday night? Maybe Wednesday.
Apple has been very good posting the stream and the podcast. The streams seem to come ~3 hours after the event finishes with the podcast coming the next day, if I remember correctly.
Will the new macbooks be available that day? or are we going ot have to wait till friday or something in the stores (best buy) to be specific. I just want to know if i am going to be able to go get it that day!
Will the new macbooks be available that day? or are we going ot have to wait till friday or something in the stores (best buy) to be specific. I just want to know if i am going to be able to go get it that day!
No buddy knows, but based on the time of the year, the time between the last revision, and Apple's history since switching to Intel, new Macs will probably be available that day, immediately after the keynote. That does not mean that all new Macs will be available in the stores, but we'll have have to wait and see.
Im going to be a first-time Mac buyer with these new releases and I was wondering, how long does it usually take apple to begin shipping after announcing their products?
Comments
Most likely, unfortunately, whatever nVidia GPU is in the MacBook won't be that much better than the X3100. Unless it is at least an nVidia 8400 but that seems unlikely.
Are you sure about that? The X3100 really isn't great. Whilst the nVidia integrated units still don't compare to the dedicated counterparts, I was under the impression that they were still a vast improvement over Intel's offerings.
Don't suppose you have any links to comparisons between Intel and nVidia integrated GPU performance?
Are you sure about that? The X3100 really isn't great. Whilst the nVidia integrated units still don't compare to the dedicated counterparts, I was under the impression that they were still a vast improvement over Intel's offerings.
Don't suppose you have any links to comparisons between Intel and nVidia integrated GPU performance?
Okay, I found this link.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-...ist.844.0.html
Now, the X3100 is far below, look at the 3DMark06 benchmark which shows X3100 as having only 500 or so 3DMark06 points.
The issue, as I suggest, is that even if you look at the nVidia 8400 M it's theoretically twice as good as the X3100... at about 1000 3DMark06 points... However, this is not a good 3DMark06 score.
For smooth graphics, gaming and say hardware-accelerated GPGPU stuff, you'd need to look at the 3DMark06 score of around 3000 points at least, going into 2009.
That's the level of the 8600M GT.
The next big question before we go into the 8400M , 9400M , etc etc. is right now, Intel Integrated is not supported by a lot of the new Mac games. GPGPU stuff, well... Will Nvidia mobile GPUs have the same issues? Can I play Command&Conquer3 on my new MacBook? That could be the more pertinent question for the new MacBook GPUs. Mac gaming.
Update:
When talking about the 9-series Nvidia mobile GPUs, things look a bit more promising. It would be very agressive but if new MacBooks had a 9300 mobile GPU, that would be pretty sweet, if all current Mac games are supported. We're talking 50% of a current MacBook Pro performance, which is not bad, if there was 128MB VRAM (even if it was DDR2).
Option A
MacBooks: nVidia 8200 - evolutionary improvement from X3100.
Option B
MacBooks: nVidia 8400 or better, then we're talking. But we need to know how current 3D Mac games are supported.
Option C
MacBooks: nVidia 9100 or 9200... Interesting, but same concern as Option B.
Option D
MacBooks: nVidia 9300 or better, should be looking good. High possibility that MacBook becomes an overall mainstream Mac gaming platform if this is the case. In 2009, MacBook will likely be the dominant Mac sold, regardless of the video card in it. If it *is* an nVidia 9300 or better, and all the latest Mac games are supported, it will actually be a big deal. Throw in a bit of OpenCL/ GPGPU/ etc. and it would be impressive.
Option D
MacBooks: nVidia 9300 or better, should be looking good. High possibility that MacBook becomes an overall mainstream Mac gaming platform if this is the case. In 2009, MacBook will likely be the dominant Mac sold, regardless of the video card in it. If it *is* an nVidia 9300 or better, and all the latest Mac games are supported, it will actually be a big deal. Throw in a bit of OpenCL/ GPGPU/ etc. and it would be impressive.
Nvidia's as-yet unreleased new mobile chipset for Intel processors will have two integrated graphics cores, called 9300 and 9400. They probably will only differ in clock speed, and probably won't be as fast (if you can call it that) as even the 8400. Nvidia likes to play name games.
As for performance, Apple would be very conservative with the driver (favoring stability over performance) and probably underclock the GPU core for thermal reasons. So if Apple were to use this, it would likely be only about twice as powerful as the current X3100.
Like I said in a different thread, I give this Nvidia chipset thing a 50/50 chance of happening. Prepare to not be surprised either way.
So, bottom line, in my view,
Option A
MacBooks: nVidia 8200 - evolutionary improvement from X3100.
Option B
MacBooks: nVidia 8400 or better, then we're talking. But we need to know how current 3D Mac games are supported.
Option C
MacBooks: nVidia 9100 or 9200... Interesting, but same concern as Option B.
Option D
MacBooks: nVidia 9300 or better, should be looking good. High possibility that MacBook becomes an overall mainstream Mac gaming platform if this is the case. In 2009, MacBook will likely be the dominant Mac sold, regardless of the video card in it. If it *is* an nVidia 9300 or better, and all the latest Mac games are supported, it will actually be a big deal. Throw in a bit of OpenCL/ GPGPU/ etc. and it would be impressive.
Option E
MacBooks: Go with Montevina's X4500. I think this is the most likely option.
Option E
MacBooks: Go with Montevina's X4500. I think this is the most likely option.
That should have probably been Option A.
Like I said, I give it a 50/50 chance of Intel or Nvidia. You think GM45 is more likely, and that wouldn't surprise me.
But here is why I think an Nvidia chipset is plausible: because it would (maybe) shut up two different groups of internet forum complainers who claim, truthfully or not, that they aren't buying Macbooks until their grievance is addressed.
The first group is people who have been complaining about integrated graphics ever since Apple went Intel. Never mind that an Nvidia chipset would be an IGP, or that it would only be marginally faster than X4500. The Macbook tech specs page would say "Geforce 9300" and that's good enough for people who don't know any better.
The second group of people are the whiny babies who cling to their 12" Powerbooks. The black Macbook wasn't good enough for them because it was plastic. The MBA wasn't good enough for them because it didn't have enough ports. Well, now they may get a 13" aluminum laptop with Geforce graphics.
Here's an image of the entire invite:
Do you guys see anything special?
I do. Or actually don't ... which is the important thing my dear Watson.
Take that PNG file into Photoshop, do a Hue/Saturation and adjust the Lightness to +33. Notice something missing? The bottom part of a laptop. If you look at a current MBP or MB directly from the back with the screen up at exactly 90 degree, you always see the bottom/keyboard part of the laptop where the heat vents are sticking down below the line of the bottom of the screen about 1/4-inch.
That is missing on this "screen".
Four possibilities:
1. It's just a comp that looked cool to design and isn't a shot of any actual hardware.
2. Apple Photoshopped out the bottom part of the laptop to make the screen look cool.
3. Apple has somehow lowered the screen at the back of the laptop with a new hinge system (making it somehow flush with the base of the laptop, i.e., it would touch the table surface it was sitting on.)
4. Or the tinhat idea ... That's the back of a tablet.
Anyone else come up with another possibility?
EDIT - 5. Could simply be a new closed laptop shot directly down with the hinge at bottom (otherwise the Apple logo is upside down). Just thought of that possibility. Any other time Apple's shot a closed laptop?
That should have probably been Option A.
Like I said, I give it a 50/50 chance of Intel or Nvidia. You think GM45 is more likely, and that wouldn't surprise me.
But here is why I think an Nvidia chipset is plausible: because it would (maybe) shut up two different groups of internet forum complainers who claim, truthfully or not, that they aren't buying Macbooks until their grievance is addressed.
The first group is people who have been complaining about integrated graphics ever since Apple went Intel. Never mind that an Nvidia chipset would be an IGP, or that it would only be marginally faster than X4500. The Macbook tech specs page would say "Geforce 9300" and that's good enough for people who don't know any better.
The second group of people are the whiny babies who cling to their 12" Powerbooks. The black Macbook wasn't good enough for them because it was plastic. The MBA wasn't good enough for them because it didn't have enough ports. Well, now they may get a 13" aluminum laptop with Geforce graphics.
Latest AppleInsider says 9300 or 9400. Name games or not, that's pretty impressive. Like I said. If one can play Command&Conquer3 smooth enough on a MacBook, that's going to be huge, graphically, and OpenCL/ GPGPU wise ... The 9300 does about 2000 3DMark06's, lets say, on the actual MacBook, around a minimum of 1500 3DMark06's -- that's really not bad for a mobile.
So I do agree, it will shut up a lot of people. A discrete GPU. Discrete VRAM. 1280x800 rich 3D Mac games. Fast GPGPU operations. Aluminium, light, with enough ports, optical drive. The Mac gaming industry will definitely be key if the 9300 shows up. They've *got* to make all their games as compatible as possible. The Radeon 2400 in iMacs is actually not that great, so the 9300 is not that far behind.
I have read that the photos show a change from DVI to Mini-DVI ports. That may just be for the MB, but if it is also for the MBPro, does anyone know if there is any problems or resolution limitations to the mini-DVI port?
I don't think you can do Dual-Link over MiniDVI so doubt the MBP would get them. There should be enough case space on a MBP anyway. If they can't find the space the designers are just being lazy.
When is apple thinking of making the 14 Oct keynote public? Like putting a note on there home site? maybe in the news? I can't seem to find anything there.
Apple events for selected media only are almost *never* announced publicly on the Apple website. At the conclusion of the 14 Oct event, then the Apple website will be updated to fully reflect all new products/ changes.
So besides hanging on every liveblog update from TUAW or AI, just check back the Apple.com website at around 14 Oct Tuesday Afternoon (US Pacific Time)... All will be revealed then.
In the meantime, we continue to go crazy OH THE INSANITY... THERE GOES NEXT FEW DAYS OF SLEEEEEEP.
new macbooks and pros duh!
update to the air duh duh!
then a one more thing... iPhone...over 10 million sold, etc, I mean when will Steve announce that?
introducing the iPhone X ... with a physical sliding keypad to please those with phat phingers
my 2 cents
introducing the iPhone X ... with a physical sliding keypad to please those with phat phingers
When I first saw the Apple invite, I thought "No double-guessing what this event is about". Usually, Apple are subtle about it but it's still obvious what's going to happen and yet people come up with ridiculous predictions. "Not this time" I thought, surely. How could they have been more blatant? This event is about laptops! Full stop! End of story!
Apple events for selected media only are almost *never* announced publicly on the Apple website. At the conclusion of the 14 Oct event, then the Apple website will be updated to fully reflect all new products/ changes.
So besides hanging on every liveblog update from TUAW or AI, just check back the Apple.com website at around 14 Oct Tuesday Afternoon (US Pacific Time)... All will be revealed then.
In the meantime, we continue to go crazy OH THE INSANITY... THERE GOES NEXT FEW DAYS OF SLEEEEEEP.
I think he was asking when the video stream will be posted. Late Tuesday night? Maybe Wednesday.
I think he was asking when the video stream will be posted. Late Tuesday night? Maybe Wednesday.
Apple has been very good posting the stream and the podcast. The streams seem to come ~3 hours after the event finishes with the podcast coming the next day, if I remember correctly.
Will the new macbooks be available that day? or are we going ot have to wait till friday or something in the stores (best buy) to be specific. I just want to know if i am going to be able to go get it that day!
No buddy knows, but based on the time of the year, the time between the last revision, and Apple's history since switching to Intel, new Macs will probably be available that day, immediately after the keynote. That does not mean that all new Macs will be available in the stores, but we'll have have to wait and see.