For those who think downloading movies is something that's years away from the mainstream, the Canadians are out to prove you wrong.
Psshhh, one province and Videotron sucks. That is a lot of money to spend on internet, I could have internet and buy a movie at that rate. That is internet and 12 Blu-Ray discs (a year). This is not for J6P. And fast internet doesn't suddenly make people want to download rentals instead of going to the store.
I'm pretty sure HD DVD came first. Wasn't the whole voting rule change fiasco a result of BDA members not showing up to vote as a stalling tactic while the Blu-ray spec was 'finished?'
Incorrect. Blu-ray came first, albeit outside of the DVD Forum as the BDA. The voting rule change fiasco was a result of HD DVD proponents not being able to get a majority of votes to get their format ratified--thus what resulted were unethical tactics on the part of Microsoft, Intel, and Toshiba as to how absentee votes were counted, and then you had the "ratification" of HD DVD by the DVD Forum which really meant nothing given that most companies were a part of the BDA and good portion of them didn't think the DVD Forum was the proper venue for next generation media standards given that they were a forum for just that, DVD.
you really area a fanboy. the bottom line has always been if HD-DVD got the support equal to that of Blurays it would have cleaned house, guaranteed.
the problem is and will always be that bluray came first, and the dvd group got stubborn and decided to create their own format. people resented this, a lot of people...
plus you have sony throwing buckets of cash at some of these studios and boom you have massive support for a crap standard that has yet to prove a damn thing.
bravo marz, bravo.
Well, interesting that you think I'm a fanboy, when, if you look at it honestly, we are all fanboys to a certain extent, otherwise we wouldn't be posting in this thread almost daily, touting Blu-ray, HD DVD, or in your case, everything good about the Xbox 360.
What is even more interesting about your fanboy assertion is that what you've just stated here is simply facts (minus the Sony <DEVIL! DEVIL!> claim of throwing buckets of cash at studios as last I checked only Microsoft and Toshiba did that to the amount of 150 million for Paramount) Blu-ray proponents such as myself have been touting since day ONE--Blu-ray has more industry support, that Blu-ray came first. So, does this make you a fanboy too?
Furthermore, for a "crap standard," as you put it, Blu-ray managed to get the backing of 170+ companies for its "crap standard." What does that make all of the companies backing it--Sony, Pioneer, Sharp, Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Philips, Apple, Dell, HP, etc? Are we to assume that they are crap too, and Toshiba is the best thing since sliced bread? I say no, the only "crap" here are the sour grapes that are coming from you due to the very facts you listed, and that we've been telling you for 2-3 years now. Glad the realization finally got to you. Congratulations, a little late, but congratulations.
He has yet to figure out how to give his opinion and fact without being..
Well, you know.
No, I don't know. You may not like my delivery, Fishyesque, but the simple matter of fact here in these latter pages of this thread, is that I simply posted some headlines. That's it. Some headlines that summarized some of the moves companies were making, only to be berated by the HD DVD proponents here. And I'm the one who is...well, you know.
If contentious replies to news is what is thrown at me, well, I can give the contention right back, but ya see, the differece is I'll have facts and figures to back up my assertions, not name calling and personal inquisitions that are of no one's business but my own.
Furthermore, by replying in such a manner with something as off task as your innuendo, your are being...? I'll leave the answer to that to you, but you're kidding yourself if you think I'll stop refuting the FUD that comes out of the fingertips of some here. I'm simply here to enjoy the debate, disuss facts and figures, and look forward to the day where we can have a Blu-ray drive in some Mac hardware.
Incorrect. Blu-ray came first, albeit outside of the DVD Forum as the BDA...
Sorry, those were two separate thoughts that appeared to go together.
What I meant was I'm pretty sure HD DVD was first to market. Which made me think about back when Blu-ray and HD DVD were competing to be the official DVD forum successor to DVD and I wrote the second sentence which should've probably been a whole separate post unto itself.
Quote:
The voting rule change fiasco was a result of HD DVD proponents not being able to get a majority of votes to get their format ratified-
But weren't they unable to get a majority because the members of the BDA were not showing up? Which brings us back to stalling.
Quote:
-thus what resulted were unethical tactics on the part of Microsoft, Intel, and Toshiba as to how absentee votes were counted, and then you had the "ratification" of HD DVD by the DVD Forum
I'm afraid I can't fault unethical tactics as a response to unethical tactics.
Great Reading on the Truth about HD-DVD, Players, and People.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JadedRaverLA's Blog
When Common Knowledge is Just Wrong
If you have spent any time on the internet looking into either the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD "war", or the next-console "war," then you've undoubtedly seen certain "facts" stated with utmost certainty by certain format/console proponents. In many cases, these "facts" go largely unchallenged as they are simply considered common knowledge amongst those "in the know."
The problem is that frequently those who think they are "in the know" are actually anything but. One great example is the "fact" that HD DVD standalones far outsell Blu-ray standalones. Since the PS3 is far and away the most popular Blu-ray player at the moment, it seemed logical that HD DVD standalones likely did outsell Blu-ray standalones -- especially since they sold at half the price. Obviously we've seen some weekly data since the Warner announcement in which Blu-ray standalones trounced HD DVD standalones but the claims about pre-Warner sales figures continued.
It wasn't until Toshiba's extremely brief CES press conference that the truth came out. Even by Toshiba's figures, their HD DVD players only represented 49% of the standalone "Next Gen DVD" market in the U.S. in 2007. Of course, it was already well known that Blu-ray lead by far greater margins in other countries. In their effort to show that their company had sold more players in 2007 than any other brand, they unwittingly let loose the dirty little secret that their format actually sold less standalone players. Oops. Even I was shocked by that.
Perhaps even more surprising though, is the "fact" that the PS3 is in third place in the next-gen console race and is doomed for failure. Internet messageboards and the gaming press alike have taken to trashing the PS3 as an early failure while giving kudos to Microsoft for wisely launching their system a year ahead, guaranteeing them a victory over Sony's system. The fact that Microsoft launched their system before properly testing it, leading to a ridiculous 33% failure rate, was reported, but quickly forgiven by the media. After all, the Wii isn't high-def and the PS3 wasn't selling enough consoles to compete. Right?
Not exactly. As it turns out, Sony actually sold more PS3s to retailers in 2007 than Microsoft sold XBox 360s. According to both companies' reports, Sony sold 8.83 million PS3 systems to retailers worldwide in 2007, while Microsoft sold 7.3 million XBox 360 systems to retailers in the same time period. How did this happen?
A couple of thoughts struck me upon reading the figures. The first is that most of the gaming press and online messageboards are based in the U.S., which is both Microsoft's home turf, as well as its strongest market. The second is that members of the gaming press as well as console fanbois are by definition "hardcore gamers" -- which is the market Microsoft has been going after since it first entered the videogame market. Casual gamers, female gamers, families, and those who want an all-in-one entertainment system really haven't been sought by Microsoft at all still. While hardcore gamers represent a minority of video gamers, they are definitely the most vocal segment of the market, so if "viral marketing" is your marketing plan then getting these users on your side will definitely help you achieve at least the appearance of success.
Regardless, the important lesson is that "common knowledge" is often just another name for misinformation being spread by those who don't have actual data to back up their claims, and that reporters are only as good as their sources. If you read an article or a messageboard post that can't provide such sources or provide solid numbers to back up the writer's claims, then its usually best to consider anything said more opinion than fact.
An HDM player is a luxury accessory for a luxury item (HDTV), and beyond Americans most people in the world aren't able or willing to be that financially irresponsible.
As you have bought an HD-DVD player, does that mean you are financially irresponsible? it would go a long way to explaining some of the FUD you post.
Have you actually got any experience of the world outside your own back yard of the US? because you come across as extremely jingoistic and myopic.
Comments
The Blu-Ray spec is finished?
I didn't say finished, I said 'finished.'
For those who think downloading movies is something that's years away from the mainstream, the Canadians are out to prove you wrong.
Psshhh, one province and Videotron sucks. That is a lot of money to spend on internet, I could have internet and buy a movie at that rate. That is internet and 12 Blu-Ray discs (a year). This is not for J6P. And fast internet doesn't suddenly make people want to download rentals instead of going to the store.
blah blah blah...
Thanks for the drive by. Peppering unrelated threads at random with your request isn't the best idea.
You could have created a single thread in General Discussion to make your request.
Anyway, reported as spam.
Michelle
How..... are you?
you really area a fanboy.
You get used to it. I hope. I haven't yet. It's like I'm at www.sonydefenseforce.com.
He has yet to figure out how to give his opinion and fact without being..
Well, you know.
How..... are you?
Still good.
Still good.
Wow, you just made my day. Thank you so much.
Hahahahaha
I'm pretty sure HD DVD came first. Wasn't the whole voting rule change fiasco a result of BDA members not showing up to vote as a stalling tactic while the Blu-ray spec was 'finished?'
Incorrect. Blu-ray came first, albeit outside of the DVD Forum as the BDA. The voting rule change fiasco was a result of HD DVD proponents not being able to get a majority of votes to get their format ratified--thus what resulted were unethical tactics on the part of Microsoft, Intel, and Toshiba as to how absentee votes were counted, and then you had the "ratification" of HD DVD by the DVD Forum which really meant nothing given that most companies were a part of the BDA and good portion of them didn't think the DVD Forum was the proper venue for next generation media standards given that they were a forum for just that, DVD.
you really area a fanboy. the bottom line has always been if HD-DVD got the support equal to that of Blurays it would have cleaned house, guaranteed.
the problem is and will always be that bluray came first, and the dvd group got stubborn and decided to create their own format. people resented this, a lot of people...
plus you have sony throwing buckets of cash at some of these studios and boom you have massive support for a crap standard that has yet to prove a damn thing.
bravo marz, bravo.
Well, interesting that you think I'm a fanboy, when, if you look at it honestly, we are all fanboys to a certain extent, otherwise we wouldn't be posting in this thread almost daily, touting Blu-ray, HD DVD, or in your case, everything good about the Xbox 360.
What is even more interesting about your fanboy assertion is that what you've just stated here is simply facts (minus the Sony <DEVIL! DEVIL!> claim of throwing buckets of cash at studios as last I checked only Microsoft and Toshiba did that to the amount of 150 million for Paramount) Blu-ray proponents such as myself have been touting since day ONE--Blu-ray has more industry support, that Blu-ray came first. So, does this make you a fanboy too?
Furthermore, for a "crap standard," as you put it, Blu-ray managed to get the backing of 170+ companies for its "crap standard." What does that make all of the companies backing it--Sony, Pioneer, Sharp, Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Philips, Apple, Dell, HP, etc? Are we to assume that they are crap too, and Toshiba is the best thing since sliced bread? I say no, the only "crap" here are the sour grapes that are coming from you due to the very facts you listed, and that we've been telling you for 2-3 years now. Glad the realization finally got to you. Congratulations, a little late, but congratulations.
You get used to it. I hope. I haven't yet. It's like I'm at www.sonydefenseforce.com.
He has yet to figure out how to give his opinion and fact without being..
Well, you know.
No, I don't know. You may not like my delivery, Fishyesque, but the simple matter of fact here in these latter pages of this thread, is that I simply posted some headlines. That's it. Some headlines that summarized some of the moves companies were making, only to be berated by the HD DVD proponents here. And I'm the one who is...well, you know.
If contentious replies to news is what is thrown at me, well, I can give the contention right back, but ya see, the differece is I'll have facts and figures to back up my assertions, not name calling and personal inquisitions that are of no one's business but my own.
Furthermore, by replying in such a manner with something as off task as your innuendo, your are being...? I'll leave the answer to that to you, but you're kidding yourself if you think I'll stop refuting the FUD that comes out of the fingertips of some here. I'm simply here to enjoy the debate, disuss facts and figures, and look forward to the day where we can have a Blu-ray drive in some Mac hardware.
Incorrect. Blu-ray came first, albeit outside of the DVD Forum as the BDA...
Sorry, those were two separate thoughts that appeared to go together.
What I meant was I'm pretty sure HD DVD was first to market. Which made me think about back when Blu-ray and HD DVD were competing to be the official DVD forum successor to DVD and I wrote the second sentence which should've probably been a whole separate post unto itself.
The voting rule change fiasco was a result of HD DVD proponents not being able to get a majority of votes to get their format ratified-
But weren't they unable to get a majority because the members of the BDA were not showing up? Which brings us back to stalling.
-thus what resulted were unethical tactics on the part of Microsoft, Intel, and Toshiba as to how absentee votes were counted, and then you had the "ratification" of HD DVD by the DVD Forum
I'm afraid I can't fault unethical tactics as a response to unethical tactics.
but you're kidding yourself if you think I'll stop refuting the FUD that comes out of the fingertips of some here.
OK, I spend way to much time reading the same types of comments over and over in this thread. On first pass I would've sworn you wrote:
but you're kidding yourself if you think I'll stop spewing the FUD...
OK, I spend way to much time reading the same types of comments over and over in this thread. On first pass I would've sworn you wrote:
That would have been the backfire of all typos, huh?
When Common Knowledge is Just Wrong
If you have spent any time on the internet looking into either the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD "war", or the next-console "war," then you've undoubtedly seen certain "facts" stated with utmost certainty by certain format/console proponents. In many cases, these "facts" go largely unchallenged as they are simply considered common knowledge amongst those "in the know."
The problem is that frequently those who think they are "in the know" are actually anything but. One great example is the "fact" that HD DVD standalones far outsell Blu-ray standalones. Since the PS3 is far and away the most popular Blu-ray player at the moment, it seemed logical that HD DVD standalones likely did outsell Blu-ray standalones -- especially since they sold at half the price. Obviously we've seen some weekly data since the Warner announcement in which Blu-ray standalones trounced HD DVD standalones but the claims about pre-Warner sales figures continued.
It wasn't until Toshiba's extremely brief CES press conference that the truth came out. Even by Toshiba's figures, their HD DVD players only represented 49% of the standalone "Next Gen DVD" market in the U.S. in 2007. Of course, it was already well known that Blu-ray lead by far greater margins in other countries. In their effort to show that their company had sold more players in 2007 than any other brand, they unwittingly let loose the dirty little secret that their format actually sold less standalone players. Oops. Even I was shocked by that.
Perhaps even more surprising though, is the "fact" that the PS3 is in third place in the next-gen console race and is doomed for failure. Internet messageboards and the gaming press alike have taken to trashing the PS3 as an early failure while giving kudos to Microsoft for wisely launching their system a year ahead, guaranteeing them a victory over Sony's system. The fact that Microsoft launched their system before properly testing it, leading to a ridiculous 33% failure rate, was reported, but quickly forgiven by the media. After all, the Wii isn't high-def and the PS3 wasn't selling enough consoles to compete. Right?
Not exactly. As it turns out, Sony actually sold more PS3s to retailers in 2007 than Microsoft sold XBox 360s. According to both companies' reports, Sony sold 8.83 million PS3 systems to retailers worldwide in 2007, while Microsoft sold 7.3 million XBox 360 systems to retailers in the same time period. How did this happen?
A couple of thoughts struck me upon reading the figures. The first is that most of the gaming press and online messageboards are based in the U.S., which is both Microsoft's home turf, as well as its strongest market. The second is that members of the gaming press as well as console fanbois are by definition "hardcore gamers" -- which is the market Microsoft has been going after since it first entered the videogame market. Casual gamers, female gamers, families, and those who want an all-in-one entertainment system really haven't been sought by Microsoft at all still. While hardcore gamers represent a minority of video gamers, they are definitely the most vocal segment of the market, so if "viral marketing" is your marketing plan then getting these users on your side will definitely help you achieve at least the appearance of success.
Regardless, the important lesson is that "common knowledge" is often just another name for misinformation being spread by those who don't have actual data to back up their claims, and that reporters are only as good as their sources. If you read an article or a messageboard post that can't provide such sources or provide solid numbers to back up the writer's claims, then its usually best to consider anything said more opinion than fact.
Most recent Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD Numbers to date.
Read the headlines on EGM also.
An HDM player is a luxury accessory for a luxury item (HDTV), and beyond Americans most people in the world aren't able or willing to be that financially irresponsible.
As you have bought an HD-DVD player, does that mean you are financially irresponsible? it would go a long way to explaining some of the FUD you post.
Have you actually got any experience of the world outside your own back yard of the US? because you come across as extremely jingoistic and myopic.
Nope not at all " Green Horn ".
Whatever you think "Grasshopper"