Im also already since quite some time disgusted by the fact that Apple deletes forum threads. They also do it if you report certain bugs. Then again, this is not an Apple problem on its own. Many news sites do it regularily, many many news sites have even stopped their comment section altogether (see also CNN), or they have banned the comments sofar away from the articles that once you reach the comment section, you cant remember what you wanted to bitch about.
I think its time for a website that can comment ANY website, and which cant be switched off. Like in a Frame would be good. Then we can read the world through our opinions and noone can shut us off.
Re Steve Jobs, I do think he has integrity and I do think that in this case he will simply need to conceed, that its all a big SNAFU and Apple will need to pay out the dosh to get it all fixed to everyones satisfaction.
I think he will do that because his reputation, is the only thing he really has to loose, and loosing that would be far more costly in any sense, than loosing a few hundred million dollars to fix the iPhone4.
After all, hes not like Bill, whos reputation has been lost for a long time, on the other hand, hes making up for lost ground by spending all the money me made on screwing consumers wrecklessly without any consideration for them, on poor kids who need medical aid and education. One extra point to Bill there.
Steve; just fix the thing; yes this will cost money but hey who doesnt make mistakes?
What is inexplicable to me is why apple won't insulate the cables that form the antenna on the whole and in the affected lower left join. I can of course wager that this might degrade the signal, but won't a bumper case have a similar degrading effect? Any of the technically inclined might want to explain this for me?
It is the highest rated phone even with the reception problem taken into account. Can't get any better than that without a Recommended rating. CR chooses not to recommend when, in their opinion, there is a problem that needs to be fixed. .
This just goes to show how irrelevant their criteria can be.
They take a product which they can't recommend, run their tests, and get the highest rating.
That's exactly what I like about AI board. There's always some guy, who tries to think rationally right in the heart of common hysteria and ignorance orgy.
No, coating can not noticeably weaken antenna reception capabilities. Neither can Apple's bumper. And all other phone antennae all over the world somehow survive underneath 2 mm thickness of plastic cases.
There's no satisfactory explanation of the necessity to expose iPhone antenna metal other than following the industrial design guidelines pushed to the limits.
That's exactly what I like about AI board. There's always some guy, who tries to think rationally right in the heart of common hysteria and ignorance orgy.
No, coating can not noticeably weaken antenna reception capabilities. Neither can Apple's bumper. And all other phone antennae all over the world somehow survive underneath 2 mm thickness of phone plastic cases.
There's no satisfactory explanation of the necessity of exposing iPhone antenna other than following the industrial design guidelines pushed to the limits.
I see. Thanks for the reply, makes a lot of sense. Surely then they must have looked at some option for coating the metal exterior frame of the phone to prevent attenuation by user contact, I wonder why they did not find any sufficiently feasible solution. This is a very strange matter indeed with this phone because we all know th talent that went into this. I fail to understand how so many signals engineers could have missed this potential problem, so I would think they didn't, but informed the design team. Even so I still fail to believe a scenario where the design team pushed them and ignored their red flag outright.
So all in all my imagination deserts me as to what might have happened.
In terms of a potential fix, which would include a small redesign, why don't they just put the joints of the antennae in the corners of the phone? Hardly anyone touches the very corner so it seems problem solved? Doesn't it? If they can fit them thus that is.
Btw, Ivan, aren't there health concerns by exposing the antennae to the user and he or she touching them. I am very sensitive to sar issues in mobile phones, an area where I think the industry has been very dishonest about potential health threats, apple included.
much as I want a 4G and I've been apple based for 20+ years, my gut told me that a radically new design would inevitably have some glitches. While Apple probably tests new products far more than anyone out there, they can't anticipate all of the real world problems, especially given the veil of secrecy that surrounds new products or redesigns
For what my two cents is worth, this might have been avoided had they wrapped the new product in really boring package, perhaps even to make it look like a 1st gen iPhone; 95% of the people who'd pick it up would be fooled by the disguise (unlike the Gizmodo twerps) and try to return the 'old' phone to its rightful owner.
The clever redesign of the antenna is to be lauded but maybe it needed more testing before the launch, perhaps even 6 months of testing to allow for incorporation of changes and retesting
Does Apple really believe that ditching forums posts will stop this story from circulating, or that the censorship won't become another story in itself?
Creepier by the day....
As many on this thread have already stated, Apple's Support Forums clearly state the following, "Search for an answer, post your question, or answer other users' questions in the Apple Discussions community." This is not a forum to state your opinion, discuss CR reports or bash a product and tell others not to buy/upgrade. This is a place to politely ask a question and see if you can get any resolution from others. Obviously you people don't read anything before you spout off. They had full right and obligation to delete these posts IMO.
Clue: Of course Apple can do whatever they want in their forums. It's about how desperate they look when they're doing it, all the while denying they have a hardware problem.
I have an iPhone 4 without these symptoms. Unfortunately for you, I know 4 other people with iPhone 4, and none---not a single one---have the death grip problem. I had a bad radio in my 3G when it came out, but luckily I was able to get a replacement. It seems this is either a bad run out of the factory, or another issue...but not a design flaw as you have incorrectly asserted. If it were, surely every phone would exhibit the symptoms.
Apple does not respond to these things until they know what the real problem is, and know exactly how to deliver a solid solution. Give it a little time, and I'm sure you'll be satisfied. The demand for this phone is unlike any other, but as it dies down, and Apple has some in stock, I'm sure they would gladly replace it for you.
You mean, um ... like the 2008 Apple Time Capsule that they recently acknowledged? So, what about the people who had one of these lemons go out on them 6 months ago - and rushed out and bought a new wireless router - because they may actually NEED them .... as in ... oh .... today?
Sorry, putting your head in the sand for an unspecified period of time and ignoring the problem is NOT the way to solve the problem.
Ok, you guys forgot your /sarcasm tag or you are creeping me out.
I was thinking the same thing.
This stuff had been somewhat entertaining to watch though; an organization has something good to say about Apple/Jobs/iPhone they are a fine, reputable, trusted outfit. Should that same org say someting even slightly negative about Apple/Jobs/iPhone then there's an agenda, they're a rag, can't be trusted. Not long ago CR was the cat's meow when they came out with a customer satisfaction survey that rated AT&T low.
Remember the problem with iPhone 3Gs battery draining problems last year and similar ranting about that issue? This one seems to be no different except in one respect. In order to identify the source of the problem (besides being Apple) those having a problem with their phone were asked to submit the serial number of the unit. This allowed Apple to narrow down the build date of the phone and, subsequently, identify the problem. I haven't seen that suggested on any forum since the iPhone4 came out. Is AI interested in setting up a link to which these numbers can be sent?
I have had NO problems with reception or dropped calls on my Iphone 4G.
Lawyers, Google, Consumer Reports are all out to make a fast buck on this.
Jeez ... I don't have cancer; therefore there is no such thing as cancer.
Here's a brief introduction into analog RF communications. If you are somewhat close to a tower, you may take a tin snips and cut off your antenna. You may even be able to rip the wires off of the PCB and STILL get great reception. You may even be able to lift the PCB traces off of the board, right up to the leads of the chip. There may be enough signal such that the internal traces on the chip are sufficient to makea phone call.
Now, move that phone a half-mile away from the tower - and now the phone may be useless. If you have a tower close by ... oh, goody for you. Just make sure you never, ever travel further than some distance from a tower. Because when you do, you will eat crow and say "Golly, my phone doesn't work ... I wonder why?".
A hardware design flaw is a design flaw .. you phone is affected, you are just not in an area where you realize this. Humans compromise primarily of two types of impedance; depending upon the water content of your skin, you may be 1,000 ohms to 100,000 ohms of resistance; but you are also a capacitor generally ranging from 10-40 pF. So, by virtue of being a human, you "de-tune" the antenna when you get within millimeters of touching it - just from your impedance. This is a design flaw.
If the antenna were behind a layer of glass, plastic or wood - and that material was just a few millimeters thick - then your impedance influence would be minized. This is why the bumpers seem to help - it puts some distance between you and the antenna.
I upgraded last week from a 3Gs to the new iPhone 4 despite reading all these horror stories about poor signal issues etc etc and so far I havent had any problems with my iPhone 4 in regards to signal and/or losing reception. I have held the phone in my left hand and even gripped unnaturally tight and still have a full signal.
Now I am in the UK on the O2 network and was wondering if anyone else on O2 has had this problem?? I know 2 other people on the same network BOTH brought theirs on launch day and neither have had any problems. So I am beginning to wonder if this Signal issue is only on the AT&T Network? Correct me if I am wrong though.
But so far I am 99.9% happy with my new iPhone, it loses 0.1% cause its super flat back means it slides of any slightly curved surface, like a Sofa arm rest which my previous iPhone didn't
This just goes to show how irrelevant their criteria can be.
They take a product which they can't recommend, run their tests, and get the highest rating.
What sort of tests are these again?
How hard is it to understand? Everything about the iPhone 4 is top-notch, with the exception of one niggling problem that can actually affect, you know, PHONE CALLS. You expect a phone with that kind of problem, albeit the only problem, to receive a recommendation? Fix the problem, it will be retested and no doubt receive CRs highest recommendation.
I upgraded last week from a 3Gs to the new iPhone 4 despite reading all these horror stories about poor signal issues etc etc and so far I havent had any problems with my iPhone 4 in regards to signal and/or losing reception. I have held the phone in my left hand and even gripped unnaturally tight and still have a full signal.
Now I am in the UK on the O2 network and was wondering if anyone else on O2 has had this problem?? I know 2 other people on the same network BOTH brought theirs on launch day and neither have had any problems. So I am beginning to wonder if this Signal issue is only on the AT&T Network? Correct me if I am wrong though.
But so far I am 99.9% happy with my new iPhone, it loses 0.1% cause its super flat back means it slides of any slightly curved surface, like a Sofa arm rest which my previous iPhone didn't
Others saying they were on O2 have reported the problem. Not an issue exclusive to the AT&T network.
Comments
I think its time for a website that can comment ANY website, and which cant be switched off. Like in a Frame would be good. Then we can read the world through our opinions and noone can shut us off.
Re Steve Jobs, I do think he has integrity and I do think that in this case he will simply need to conceed, that its all a big SNAFU and Apple will need to pay out the dosh to get it all fixed to everyones satisfaction.
I think he will do that because his reputation, is the only thing he really has to loose, and loosing that would be far more costly in any sense, than loosing a few hundred million dollars to fix the iPhone4.
After all, hes not like Bill, whos reputation has been lost for a long time, on the other hand, hes making up for lost ground by spending all the money me made on screwing consumers wrecklessly without any consideration for them, on poor kids who need medical aid and education. One extra point to Bill there.
Steve; just fix the thing; yes this will cost money but hey who doesnt make mistakes?
Were all just human.
It is the highest rated phone even with the reception problem taken into account. Can't get any better than that without a Recommended rating. CR chooses not to recommend when, in their opinion, there is a problem that needs to be fixed. .
This just goes to show how irrelevant their criteria can be.
They take a product which they can't recommend, run their tests, and get the highest rating.
What sort of tests are these again?
No company has EVER gained by silencing their opponent.
Apple's PR department needs to hire a crisis management specialist. That is the underlying problem here.
The iPhone 4 has absolutely no problem, nothing!
Greeting
G
Correct. It is a software issue that has been present since the first iPhone. It will be fixed in due course.
reality check.
...
Nor is libel or slander considered free speech. Nor is pornography.
Back to high school government class for you.
Pornography is just about the best example of free speech that exists. Ask Larry Flynt.
That's exactly what I like about AI board. There's always some guy, who tries to think rationally right in the heart of common hysteria and ignorance orgy.
No, coating can not noticeably weaken antenna reception capabilities. Neither can Apple's bumper. And all other phone antennae all over the world somehow survive underneath 2 mm thickness of plastic cases.
There's no satisfactory explanation of the necessity to expose iPhone antenna metal other than following the industrial design guidelines pushed to the limits.
That's exactly what I like about AI board. There's always some guy, who tries to think rationally right in the heart of common hysteria and ignorance orgy.
No, coating can not noticeably weaken antenna reception capabilities. Neither can Apple's bumper. And all other phone antennae all over the world somehow survive underneath 2 mm thickness of phone plastic cases.
There's no satisfactory explanation of the necessity of exposing iPhone antenna other than following the industrial design guidelines pushed to the limits.
I see. Thanks for the reply, makes a lot of sense. Surely then they must have looked at some option for coating the metal exterior frame of the phone to prevent attenuation by user contact, I wonder why they did not find any sufficiently feasible solution. This is a very strange matter indeed with this phone because we all know th talent that went into this. I fail to understand how so many signals engineers could have missed this potential problem, so I would think they didn't, but informed the design team. Even so I still fail to believe a scenario where the design team pushed them and ignored their red flag outright.
So all in all my imagination deserts me as to what might have happened.
In terms of a potential fix, which would include a small redesign, why don't they just put the joints of the antennae in the corners of the phone? Hardly anyone touches the very corner so it seems problem solved? Doesn't it? If they can fit them thus that is.
Btw, Ivan, aren't there health concerns by exposing the antennae to the user and he or she touching them. I am very sensitive to sar issues in mobile phones, an area where I think the industry has been very dishonest about potential health threats, apple included.
Bought from them
Apple 2
Laserwriter
Mac
Mac SE II
iMac
4 iPods
iPod Touch
2 iPhones
Bought their stock at 9
Sold it at 270 after SJ told it's not the phone that's the problem but that the consumer is the problem.
Lawyers, Google, Consumer Reports are all out to make a fast buck on this.
For what my two cents is worth, this might have been avoided had they wrapped the new product in really boring package, perhaps even to make it look like a 1st gen iPhone; 95% of the people who'd pick it up would be fooled by the disguise (unlike the Gizmodo twerps) and try to return the 'old' phone to its rightful owner.
The clever redesign of the antenna is to be lauded but maybe it needed more testing before the launch, perhaps even 6 months of testing to allow for incorporation of changes and retesting
These guys are deadly. Don't cross them... they're nutty.
Yes... I am deadly... do not cross me
Does Apple really believe that ditching forums posts will stop this story from circulating, or that the censorship won't become another story in itself?
Creepier by the day....
As many on this thread have already stated, Apple's Support Forums clearly state the following, "Search for an answer, post your question, or answer other users' questions in the Apple Discussions community." This is not a forum to state your opinion, discuss CR reports or bash a product and tell others not to buy/upgrade. This is a place to politely ask a question and see if you can get any resolution from others. Obviously you people don't read anything before you spout off. They had full right and obligation to delete these posts IMO.
Clue: Of course Apple can do whatever they want in their forums. It's about how desperate they look when they're doing it, all the while denying they have a hardware problem.
I have an iPhone 4 without these symptoms. Unfortunately for you, I know 4 other people with iPhone 4, and none---not a single one---have the death grip problem. I had a bad radio in my 3G when it came out, but luckily I was able to get a replacement. It seems this is either a bad run out of the factory, or another issue...but not a design flaw as you have incorrectly asserted. If it were, surely every phone would exhibit the symptoms.
Apple does not respond to these things until they know what the real problem is, and know exactly how to deliver a solid solution. Give it a little time, and I'm sure you'll be satisfied. The demand for this phone is unlike any other, but as it dies down, and Apple has some in stock, I'm sure they would gladly replace it for you.
You mean, um ... like the 2008 Apple Time Capsule that they recently acknowledged? So, what about the people who had one of these lemons go out on them 6 months ago - and rushed out and bought a new wireless router - because they may actually NEED them .... as in ... oh .... today?
Sorry, putting your head in the sand for an unspecified period of time and ignoring the problem is NOT the way to solve the problem.
Ok, you guys forgot your /sarcasm tag or you are creeping me out.
I was thinking the same thing.
This stuff had been somewhat entertaining to watch though; an organization has something good to say about Apple/Jobs/iPhone they are a fine, reputable, trusted outfit. Should that same org say someting even slightly negative about Apple/Jobs/iPhone then there's an agenda, they're a rag, can't be trusted. Not long ago CR was the cat's meow when they came out with a customer satisfaction survey that rated AT&T low.
Hilarious!
I have had NO problems with reception or dropped calls on my Iphone 4G.
Lawyers, Google, Consumer Reports are all out to make a fast buck on this.
Jeez ... I don't have cancer; therefore there is no such thing as cancer.
Here's a brief introduction into analog RF communications. If you are somewhat close to a tower, you may take a tin snips and cut off your antenna. You may even be able to rip the wires off of the PCB and STILL get great reception. You may even be able to lift the PCB traces off of the board, right up to the leads of the chip. There may be enough signal such that the internal traces on the chip are sufficient to makea phone call.
Now, move that phone a half-mile away from the tower - and now the phone may be useless. If you have a tower close by ... oh, goody for you. Just make sure you never, ever travel further than some distance from a tower. Because when you do, you will eat crow and say "Golly, my phone doesn't work ... I wonder why?".
A hardware design flaw is a design flaw .. you phone is affected, you are just not in an area where you realize this. Humans compromise primarily of two types of impedance; depending upon the water content of your skin, you may be 1,000 ohms to 100,000 ohms of resistance; but you are also a capacitor generally ranging from 10-40 pF. So, by virtue of being a human, you "de-tune" the antenna when you get within millimeters of touching it - just from your impedance. This is a design flaw.
If the antenna were behind a layer of glass, plastic or wood - and that material was just a few millimeters thick - then your impedance influence would be minized. This is why the bumpers seem to help - it puts some distance between you and the antenna.
Now I am in the UK on the O2 network and was wondering if anyone else on O2 has had this problem?? I know 2 other people on the same network BOTH brought theirs on launch day and neither have had any problems. So I am beginning to wonder if this Signal issue is only on the AT&T Network? Correct me if I am wrong though.
But so far I am 99.9% happy with my new iPhone, it loses 0.1% cause its super flat back means it slides of any slightly curved surface, like a Sofa arm rest which my previous iPhone didn't
This just goes to show how irrelevant their criteria can be.
They take a product which they can't recommend, run their tests, and get the highest rating.
What sort of tests are these again?
How hard is it to understand? Everything about the iPhone 4 is top-notch, with the exception of one niggling problem that can actually affect, you know, PHONE CALLS. You expect a phone with that kind of problem, albeit the only problem, to receive a recommendation? Fix the problem, it will be retested and no doubt receive CRs highest recommendation.
I upgraded last week from a 3Gs to the new iPhone 4 despite reading all these horror stories about poor signal issues etc etc and so far I havent had any problems with my iPhone 4 in regards to signal and/or losing reception. I have held the phone in my left hand and even gripped unnaturally tight and still have a full signal.
Now I am in the UK on the O2 network and was wondering if anyone else on O2 has had this problem?? I know 2 other people on the same network BOTH brought theirs on launch day and neither have had any problems. So I am beginning to wonder if this Signal issue is only on the AT&T Network? Correct me if I am wrong though.
But so far I am 99.9% happy with my new iPhone, it loses 0.1% cause its super flat back means it slides of any slightly curved surface, like a Sofa arm rest which my previous iPhone didn't
Others saying they were on O2 have reported the problem. Not an issue exclusive to the AT&T network.