Why would you still want to use toolbar items? My guess is that Apple's moving away from them altogether, which is a sensible thing to do. The toolbar is no place for directory shortcuts. It's a place for functions. And that's where Apple is heading. (So I'm hoping they remove the option to put aliases up there totally.)
Why would you still want to use toolbar items? My guess is that Apple's moving away from them altogether, which is a sensible thing to do. The toolbar is no place for directory shortcuts. It's a place for functions. And that's where Apple is heading. (So I'm hoping they remove the option to put aliases up there totally.)
speaking for myself:
I like choice, and not that the OS or Apple dictates how I choose
to use it. I like the new sidebar, but got along just fine without it.
(Basically its a vertical toolbar anyway)
Right now I use it as an extra with folders I commonly visit and replace
them with other folders once I plan to visit them a lot.
My horizontal toolbar however has a fixed set of shortcuts that I find
handy. As the toolbar being no place for them, that is offcourse your
opinion and up to the individual I would say.
Anyway, this means offcourse more shortcuts in one Finder window
which is great offcourse.
further more, I find that moving mouse from left to right to select
items on toolbar feels more convinient, I am up there a lot to go back,
then try to reinstall... i have no better answer, since it works perfectly for me in 7B49. my machine's an iBook 800 12" Combo. although i don't think that there's a different version for Finder being installed on different hardware. unless: do you use localised stuff? I'm on an English-only version right now...
Apple has to make choices about HUI guidelines in terms of how and where specific types of functionality are to be accessed, system-wide. The idea is consistency, not reinforcing old habits from almost-baked interfaces. Choice is fine in some areas of the GUI (like the Dock). But you don't have much of an argument with the Finder because in almost every core Mac application, from Apple to Adobe, toolbars are used to hold task-critical menu commands, not user-definable folders, shortcuts or anything else.
If Apple were to suddenly let you place your folders, shortcuts, and view widgets (to name three examples) wherever the hell you wanted, the GUI would turn to crap. FACT: companies that try to make their GUIs all things to all people, end up with lousy GUIs. Instead of making everyone happy (or a majority of users happy as will probably be the case with Panther), they make no one happy.
From what I can see, Apple - while clearly having more refinements to make - has done a great job with Panther. The overall look is more elegant / less distracting. The Finder, while still inflexible in some regards (not the one you're talking about) is more refined, from labels to the preferences to overall responsiveness. And they added some excellent features that MANY users will find invaluable, like: Exposé, the new User Administration tools, Fast User Switching, and greatly improved productivity apps (Mail, iCal, Preview).
In short, they're doing one hell of a job compared to the competition. They deliver a more functional, more stable and more secure upgrade to their OS every single year. And one that looks better and better each year to boot. It takes MS 3-5 years to do that, and even THEN they can't get the look, usability or security parts right.
Sorry for the semi-rant - that last bit wasn't directed at you specifically - but these things need to be said from time to time. Mac users tend to get spoiled / not appreciate the technologies being developed for them on a constant basis. To those people I say, go use XP for the next three years (while you wait for the "next big thing from Bill") and let us know how it goes... ya know?
I am not talking about a functionality that is NOT there anymore.
It's still there (menubar>view> customize toolbar) and allows you
to drag whatever you like there. If they didn't wanted that functionality
to be there they should have disabled it, not half assed (no springload)
as it is now. (and probably will stay, so far in the process)
And as to your 'statement' :
quote: toolbars are used to hold task-critical menu commands,
not user-definable folders, shortcuts or anything else, end quote
If you do open the customize toolbar panel you will see the iDisk in
there wich is clearly a shortcut and of the same nature as if I would
drag a favorite folder in.
So you can drag files and folders BOTH to the Places sidebar AND to the standard Mac OS X toolbar?! That seems kind of dumb to me. I think Apple should just remove the ability to put things into the standard Mac OS X toolbar, because, as someone pointed out, there should be buttons that perform certain functions in there, not buttons that go to places on your hard drive (the iDisk button should be removed, too).
The one reason I can think of as to why Apple retained this functionality was to retain backwards compatibility with Jaguar toolbars -- if you update from Jaguar to Panther, and Panther removed the ability to put folders/files in the standard Mac OS X toolbar, a lot of people would be annoyed since they had customized their Mac OS X toolbar to how they liked it. It would be cool if somehow they managed to put together a feature where it would "migrate" your files/folders in the standard Mac OS X toolbar to the Places sidebar when you upgrade.
if not, i can see the reason being that quartz extreme has been so utilized that they broke beige compatibility (with OEM video) to make progress in display speed and innovation.
anybody know? i saw one spec a while ago saying panther ran on everything jag runs on, and then i saw a rumor that it wouldn't.
if not, i can see the reason being that quartz extreme has been so utilized that they broke beige compatibility (with OEM video) to make progress in display speed and innovation.
anybody know? i saw one spec a while ago saying panther ran on everything jag runs on, and then i saw a rumor that it wouldn't.
No, Panther does not run on a beige G3 and Quartz Extreme has nothing to do with it.
I think Apple should just remove the ability to put things into the standard Mac OS X toolbar, because, as someone pointed out, there should be buttons that perform certain functions in there, not buttons that go to places on your hard drive (the iDisk button should be removed, too).
why should it be removed for godsake?
If you dont like to use it, don't use it, that pretty simple right?
isn't it kinda cool if people do want to use it that they can?
Why must it always be or that or that, why not have it both
and let user decide
C.H.O.I.C.E
I mean in diskUtlity's toolbar shortcuts wouldn't have function coz
there is nowhere to go, but in a program that you use to get to places,
find stuff, open things etc (Finder) shortcuts in the toolbar make
perfect sense imo coz it helps you find, open and get there even
faster.
and now you can have even more on top and on side, COOL!
So you can drag files and folders BOTH to the Places sidebar AND to the standard Mac OS X toolbar?! That seems kind of dumb to me. I think Apple should just remove the ability to put things into the standard Mac OS X toolbar, because, as someone pointed out, there should be buttons that perform certain functions in there, not buttons that go to places on your hard drive (the iDisk button should be removed, too)....
It does seem dumb. That's why I wasn't too impressed by the Places Sidebar... it duplicates much of what could already be done with the Toolbar. The main thing it has going for it, is its consistency with Open/Save dialogs. I haven't used it, so I guess I'll see how much I like it.... When I first saw it, I thought it was rather Frankensteinish (and Windowsish, actually). "They're adding another pane on the left side?! What's next, the right and bottom?" Also, from what I've seen, you can't TOTALLY get rid of the Places Sidebar w/o giving up the Toolbar at top... it stays as a slightly thicker edge on the left. That just bothers me, though perhaps that's changed in later builds.
The other thing that really bothered me is the new icon selection look. Last I saw it looked like a rectangular inset... way too much like Classic's View by Button mode. Is that whole rectangular area clickable? This is just something that doesn't need messing with, IMO. Keep the effect in the actual icon outline.
I'm also very unsure about Finder Metal... and I still hold out hope for full-blown theme support.
I don't want to come across as pissy. I like a lot the other new features, and the new subdued Aqua look. I've enjoyed the changes and improvements with each version of OS X so far. There's just a few things this time that make me feel like they are messing with time tested interface elements... something I never felt at all going from OS 9 to OS X. I guess I'm just old school about some things.
(as an aside, the return of divider lines in menus really freaked me out. It was just so strange seeing them again.)
Y'know what'd be handy? A size slider in the Get Info boxes, to zoom in to the document's icon. Has this been implemented, yet (still on Puma)?
Anyway, back to today's HOT issue, I thought the Action menu would have covered all the commands you'd have in the horizontal toolbar already. But a button would be quicker than a drop-down menu.
Why not let the user configure the horizontal toolbar to his/her liking, with all the Action buttons that can fit in the thing and leave all the Actions in the menu bar, where they already are. The Action menu to me seems redundent.
I dont know about you guys, but I'm having major problems with smb. I cannot connect to any windows servers. It puts an odd afp:// before the address for some odd reason. I used to be able to just, Go, Connect to server, and type in the address. Now when I do that it won't connect. Also, Smb printing no longer seems to work. It worked in earlier builds of panther, but now it only sees the workgroup and the computer but doesnt find the shared printers on the windows machine. I am sure I have made the printers shared as well. Would restarting the windows machine do anything??? Has anyone else gotten either of these to work?
Comments
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
This is very, very bad.
It had better be a bug.
Why would you still want to use toolbar items? My guess is that Apple's moving away from them altogether, which is a sensible thing to do. The toolbar is no place for directory shortcuts. It's a place for functions. And that's where Apple is heading. (So I'm hoping they remove the option to put aliases up there totally.)
Originally posted by fryke
Why would you still want to use toolbar items? My guess is that Apple's moving away from them altogether, which is a sensible thing to do. The toolbar is no place for directory shortcuts. It's a place for functions. And that's where Apple is heading. (So I'm hoping they remove the option to put aliases up there totally.)
speaking for myself:
I like choice, and not that the OS or Apple dictates how I choose
to use it. I like the new sidebar, but got along just fine without it.
(Basically its a vertical toolbar anyway)
Right now I use it as an extra with folders I commonly visit and replace
them with other folders once I plan to visit them a lot.
My horizontal toolbar however has a fixed set of shortcuts that I find
handy. As the toolbar being no place for them, that is offcourse your
opinion and up to the individual I would say.
Anyway, this means offcourse more shortcuts in one Finder window
which is great offcourse.
further more, I find that moving mouse from left to right to select
items on toolbar feels more convinient, I am up there a lot to go back,
forward,change view, do a search etc anyway.
Originally posted by panicX
speaking for myself:
I like choice, and not that the OS or Apple dictates how I choose
to use it. I like the new sidebar, but got along just fine without it.
(Basically its a vertical toolbar anyway)
Right now I use it as an extra with folders I commonly visit and replace
them with other folders once I plan to visit them a lot.
My horizontal toolbar however has a fixed set of shortcuts that I find
handy. As the toolbar being no place for them, that is offcourse your
opinion and up to the individual I would say.
Anyway, this means offcourse more shortcuts in one Finder window
which is great offcourse.
further more, I find that moving mouse from left to right to select
items on toolbar feels more convinient, I am up there a lot to go back,
forward,change view, do a search etc anyway.
Yeah...and I'd love a Flower Power theme and a side-ways menubar.
Deal with it. If Apple gave people too much flexibility, it would overcomplicate the UI.
Originally posted by fryke
Okay.
this is how it is for me, Fryke... (in every user account I make)
I can drag the preferences window to bottom right corner, bottomleft ,
god knows where, next time it will open glued to menubar like before
Apple has to make choices about HUI guidelines in terms of how and where specific types of functionality are to be accessed, system-wide. The idea is consistency, not reinforcing old habits from almost-baked interfaces. Choice is fine in some areas of the GUI (like the Dock). But you don't have much of an argument with the Finder because in almost every core Mac application, from Apple to Adobe, toolbars are used to hold task-critical menu commands, not user-definable folders, shortcuts or anything else.
If Apple were to suddenly let you place your folders, shortcuts, and view widgets (to name three examples) wherever the hell you wanted, the GUI would turn to crap. FACT: companies that try to make their GUIs all things to all people, end up with lousy GUIs. Instead of making everyone happy (or a majority of users happy as will probably be the case with Panther), they make no one happy.
From what I can see, Apple - while clearly having more refinements to make - has done a great job with Panther. The overall look is more elegant / less distracting. The Finder, while still inflexible in some regards (not the one you're talking about) is more refined, from labels to the preferences to overall responsiveness. And they added some excellent features that MANY users will find invaluable, like: Exposé, the new User Administration tools, Fast User Switching, and greatly improved productivity apps (Mail, iCal, Preview).
In short, they're doing one hell of a job compared to the competition. They deliver a more functional, more stable and more secure upgrade to their OS every single year. And one that looks better and better each year to boot. It takes MS 3-5 years to do that, and even THEN they can't get the look, usability or security parts right.
Sorry for the semi-rant - that last bit wasn't directed at you specifically - but these things need to be said from time to time. Mac users tend to get spoiled / not appreciate the technologies being developed for them on a constant basis. To those people I say, go use XP for the next three years (while you wait for the "next big thing from Bill") and let us know how it goes... ya know?
Apple does is cool and I have no mind of my own and follow blindly.
(sorry couldnt resist, please take no offense)
oke back on track (sort off...)
first of all , I am not trying to slag so please lets try
to behave like adults, respect is the key
( you respect me I respect you)
I really dont see why you people have to make such a fuss.
I said 'speaking for myself' right?
If you dont want to use that toolbar: cool, I won't stand in your way
but please respect my choice as well and don't slag me (hi Kim)
At least Moogs, you came up with an intelligent reply of more then
2 sentences (hi Kim)
so to Moogs: (with respect)
I am not talking about a functionality that is NOT there anymore.
It's still there (menubar>view> customize toolbar) and allows you
to drag whatever you like there. If they didn't wanted that functionality
to be there they should have disabled it, not half assed (no springload)
as it is now. (and probably will stay, so far in the process)
And as to your 'statement' :
quote: toolbars are used to hold task-critical menu commands,
not user-definable folders, shortcuts or anything else, end quote
If you do open the customize toolbar panel you will see the iDisk in
there wich is clearly a shortcut and of the same nature as if I would
drag a favorite folder in.
So although you yourself have formed a particular theory about
how Apple wants (us) to use Toolbars, they themselves clearly haven't.
Also the main function of the Finder is to find/ open stuff and GO places, wich
sets it apart from other apps (like PhotoShop) and thus imo justifies shortcuts in
a toolbar wich make the application more efficient
(wich is what a toolbar is for to a great extent right?)
to top it all off, I am quit happy with the Finder...
I have shortcuts on top AND on the side now
Originally posted by panicX
so to Moogs: (with respect)
I am not talking about a functionality that is NOT there anymore.
It's still there (menubar>view> customize toolbar) and allows you
to drag whatever you like there. If they didn't wanted that functionality
to be there they should have disabled it, not half assed (no springload)
as it is now. (and probably will stay, so far in the process)
And as to your 'statement' :
quote: toolbars are used to hold task-critical menu commands,
not user-definable folders, shortcuts or anything else, end quote
If you do open the customize toolbar panel you will see the iDisk in
there wich is clearly a shortcut and of the same nature as if I would
drag a favorite folder in.
So you can drag files and folders BOTH to the Places sidebar AND to the standard Mac OS X toolbar?! That seems kind of dumb to me. I think Apple should just remove the ability to put things into the standard Mac OS X toolbar, because, as someone pointed out, there should be buttons that perform certain functions in there, not buttons that go to places on your hard drive (the iDisk button should be removed, too).
The one reason I can think of as to why Apple retained this functionality was to retain backwards compatibility with Jaguar toolbars -- if you update from Jaguar to Panther, and Panther removed the ability to put folders/files in the standard Mac OS X toolbar, a lot of people would be annoyed since they had customized their Mac OS X toolbar to how they liked it. It would be cool if somehow they managed to put together a feature where it would "migrate" your files/folders in the standard Mac OS X toolbar to the Places sidebar when you upgrade.
if not, i can see the reason being that quartz extreme has been so utilized that they broke beige compatibility (with OEM video) to make progress in display speed and innovation.
anybody know? i saw one spec a while ago saying panther ran on everything jag runs on, and then i saw a rumor that it wouldn't.
Originally posted by panicX
If you do open the customize toolbar panel you will see the iDisk in
there wich is clearly a shortcut and of the same nature as if I would
drag a favorite folder in.
Pulling smoke out of posterior:
Perhaps you could think of it as a command to 'mount iDisk'?
Naw, didn't think you'd go for that.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Yeah...and I'd love a Flower Power theme and a side-ways menubar.
Deal with it. If Apple gave people too much flexibility, it would overcomplicate the UI.
Are you on your period or something?
Originally posted by OxC0FFEE
does this build of panther work on the beige g3?
if not, i can see the reason being that quartz extreme has been so utilized that they broke beige compatibility (with OEM video) to make progress in display speed and innovation.
anybody know? i saw one spec a while ago saying panther ran on everything jag runs on, and then i saw a rumor that it wouldn't.
No, Panther does not run on a beige G3 and Quartz Extreme has nothing to do with it.
Panther runs on any Mac with built in USB.
Originally posted by JLL
No, Panther does not run on a beige G3 and Quartz Extreme has nothing to do with it.
Panther runs on any Mac with built in USB.
ahh so they must have needed to drop ADB support for some reason...
an excuse to upgrade to a g5, i suppose. or continue using jaguar on my beige g3 for now :-)
Originally posted by OxC0FFEE
ahh so they must have needed to drop ADB support for some reason...
No, the keyboards in PowerBooks and iBooks use ADB.
Originally posted by simX
I think Apple should just remove the ability to put things into the standard Mac OS X toolbar, because, as someone pointed out, there should be buttons that perform certain functions in there, not buttons that go to places on your hard drive (the iDisk button should be removed, too).
why should it be removed for godsake?
If you dont like to use it, don't use it, that pretty simple right?
isn't it kinda cool if people do want to use it that they can?
Why must it always be or that or that, why not have it both
and let user decide
C.H.O.I.C.E
I mean in diskUtlity's toolbar shortcuts wouldn't have function coz
there is nowhere to go, but in a program that you use to get to places,
find stuff, open things etc (Finder) shortcuts in the toolbar make
perfect sense imo coz it helps you find, open and get there even
faster.
and now you can have even more on top and on side, COOL!
anyway, enough already, we shall see in the Final
Originally posted by JLL
No, the keyboards in PowerBooks and iBooks use ADB.
Also, blue and white G3s have an ADB port that should still be supported.
Originally posted by simX
So you can drag files and folders BOTH to the Places sidebar AND to the standard Mac OS X toolbar?! That seems kind of dumb to me. I think Apple should just remove the ability to put things into the standard Mac OS X toolbar, because, as someone pointed out, there should be buttons that perform certain functions in there, not buttons that go to places on your hard drive (the iDisk button should be removed, too)....
It does seem dumb. That's why I wasn't too impressed by the Places Sidebar... it duplicates much of what could already be done with the Toolbar. The main thing it has going for it, is its consistency with Open/Save dialogs. I haven't used it, so I guess I'll see how much I like it.... When I first saw it, I thought it was rather Frankensteinish (and Windowsish, actually). "They're adding another pane on the left side?! What's next, the right and bottom?" Also, from what I've seen, you can't TOTALLY get rid of the Places Sidebar w/o giving up the Toolbar at top... it stays as a slightly thicker edge on the left. That just bothers me, though perhaps that's changed in later builds.
The other thing that really bothered me is the new icon selection look. Last I saw it looked like a rectangular inset... way too much like Classic's View by Button mode. Is that whole rectangular area clickable? This is just something that doesn't need messing with, IMO. Keep the effect in the actual icon outline.
I'm also very unsure about Finder Metal... and I still hold out hope for full-blown theme support.
I don't want to come across as pissy.
(as an aside, the return of divider lines in menus really freaked me out. It was just so strange seeing them again.)
Anyway, back to today's HOT issue, I thought the Action menu would have covered all the commands you'd have in the horizontal toolbar already. But a button would be quicker than a drop-down menu.
Why not let the user configure the horizontal toolbar to his/her liking, with all the Action buttons that can fit in the thing and leave all the Actions in the menu bar, where they already are. The Action menu to me seems redundent.