you wrote "By the netherlands i suppose u mean the dutch". I've often wondered about the distinction between Holland and The Netherlands. Which is the official name? Someone once told me that Holland only covers 2 out of the 9 'districts', and that The Netherlands is the whole country.
However, since I'm not sure that The Netherlands has 9 districts in the first place, and we were pretty drunk at the time, I don't know whether the above is true or not.
Any idea?
re the football - England went out because big name players went missing in action during the game (Rooney, obviously, Gerrard and Lampard) and because the players didn't have the 'bottle' to take some penalties.
Some people persist in claiming that penalty shootouts are a lottery. Rubbish. Shootouts are a test of technical ability plus mental strength. Get them together and you'll win.
The Times newspaper has analysed World Cup penalty shootouts, and state that Germany have scored 17 out of 18 chances. England only 7 out of 14 taken. That is not a lottery.
re the football - England went out because big name players went missing in action during the game (Rooney, obviously, Gerrard and Lampard) and because the players didn't have the 'bottle' to take some penalties.
Some people persist in claiming that penalty shootouts are a lottery. Rubbish. Shootouts are a test of technical ability plus mental strength. Get them together and you'll win.
The Times newspaper has analysed World Cup penalty shootouts, and state that Germany have scored 17 out of 18 chances. England only 7 out of 14 taken. That is not a lottery.
I agree with you for the most part. However I wouldn't blame Gerrard. He was exhausted. His last game had been in mid May(FA cup final) and in the extra time he could barely walk which makes his amazing goal even more impressive. The point is, Liverpool played over 60 games this season and had almost no time off to start the 2005 season. That's too much for a player.
Wanna blame players for not showing up who had no reason to be exhausted? How about Terry (he was a disaster on defense), Cole and Lampard? It wasn't Gerrard who missed shots inside the box vs. Portugal. I'm surprised you didn't mention Sven....a disaster of a manager. Why Lennon didn't play more is a good question....he was pretty effective every time he came in...and then he gets subbed in for Carragher of all people. Clueless.
I'm not sure about Gerrard being exhausted because of the Cup Final. He arrived in Germany fully fit, he had several weeks off before the tournament, and he didn't strike me as knackered, more............ I don't know, disinterested is the wrong word, maybe unsure of himself. He wasn't strutting, saying 'give me the ball, I'm THE man' which he does for Liverpool week in week out.
You mentioned Cole, Lampard and Terry. Lampard I did already blame. Terry - to be honest I thought he had a more than decent tournament. Yes, he did make the odd mistake which is rare for him, but on balance I thought he was a rock. Cole - for me he's a funny player. Can be infuriating, can be excellent (though to be fair over the last year or so he's mainly the latter). Against Portugal he didn't do too much while he was on. So I'll agree, for that match, I'll put him down as another 'missing in action'.
Before I get to Sven, I'll mention Lennon. For the time being I don't rate him. He mainly came on when opposition defenders were tired, and I totally agree that he went past them more often than not as though they were not there. But, an important but, can you remember a single decent telling pass/cross that he did with that ability (with the single exception of the dribble into the Portugal box) in all the time he was on? He seems to rarely, if ever, lift his head and see what is going on around him to make his runs more effective. But he is young, so we'll see for the future. (I read the Carragher substitution was because Carra was the second best penalty taker during England practices during the tournament).
Sven. His biggest failing was the failure to get Lampard and Gerrard to play in the same team. If it really was impossible, then he should have had the nerve to go 4 4 2 with a midfield of Beckham, Hargreaves, Gerrard Cole with a front two of Crouch and Rooney. Then maybe Gerrard would have been free of the mental shackles he was playing under (my opinion, of course), and Rooney would not have spent the 60 minutes against Portugal frustrated and angry because when he did get the ball there was no-one around him to support.
I'm not sure about Gerrard being exhausted because of the Cup Final. He arrived in Germany fully fit, he had several weeks off before the tournament, and he didn't strike me as knackered, more............ I don't know, disinterested is the wrong word, maybe unsure of himself. He wasn't strutting, saying 'give me the ball, I'm THE man' which he does for Liverpool week in week out.
I never said he was exhausted "because" of the WC. You said that, not me. Did you watch the FA Cup final? In the extra-time...did you miss Gerrard barely able to walk? Here are the facts: the LFC campaign finished later than everyone else in 2005-06 due to the FA final which went to penalty kicks. Considering the FA cup final was on the 13th of MAY 06 and the WC started June 9th(England arrived in Germany AFTER the pre-WC camp on the 5th of June to play their first game on the 10th) Gerrard did not have "several weeks off" as you said. FACT.
Rewind to 2005. The 2005 season for LFC started earlier than anyone else's because they had to qualify for the CL due to their 5th place finish in the Premiership. Their first game was July 13th....which means pre-season started earlier aswell. By the way, Gerrard scored a hat-trick that day. FACT.
As Benitez said after the FA final: "We needed to keep going but after 63 games it was really difficult." If 63 games isn't one marathon season I don't know what is....especially since like you said Gerrard is the man. So there you have it. Very little rest in 2 years for Gerrard. FACT.
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You mentioned Cole, Lampard and Terry. Lampard I did already blame. Terry - to be honest I thought he had a more than decent tournament. Yes, he did make the odd mistake which is rare for him, but on balance I thought he was a rock.
What kind of rock? Crumbly lava rock maybe. Did you miss the Sweden game and the disastrous defensive effort? Or the Ecuador game? Terry was horrible (except for the Portugal game in which he wasn't too bad.) I hope he keeps playing like that too.
And Cole, like you said...missing in action....for most of the cup except for Sweden...although besides that great goal he didn't really do that much.
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Before I get to Sven, I'll mention Lennon. For the time being I don't rate him. He mainly came on when opposition defenders were tired, and I totally agree that he went past them more often than not as though they were not there.
Me neither...rating Lennon...except for his WC performance when he did play. Funny how you can attribute "tiredness" to the opposing defenders but not to Gerrard. That's mindboggling to me. And Lennon was the only one adding depth and willing to go at defenders...except for Rooney and Cole with his silly looking and innefective "bicycles". And God save England if Carra was the second best penalty taker for England! I find that surreal to be honest...and that's even though I love him to death for what he's done for Liverpool FC through the years. And when Sven said he'd start him at the ball holding role I thought he was joking in a bizarro world kind of way. He wasn't.
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Sven. His biggest failing was the failure to get Lampard and Gerrard to play in the same team. If it really was impossible, then he should have had the nerve to go 4 4 2 with a midfield of Beckham, Hargreaves, Gerrard Cole with a front two of Crouch and Rooney. Then maybe Gerrard would have been free of the mental shackles he was playing under (my opinion, of course), and Rooney would not have spent the 60 minutes against Portugal frustrated and angry because when he did get the ball there was no-one around him to support.
I tend to agree with you about Lampard+Gerrard but Sven had MANY failings. His England team selection. His tactics, his substitutions, his system with only one striker. His "distractions". This team had a lot of potential....which is too bad because I don't see too many great young players coming out of England and many have said this was the best "batch" of talent in many years irregardless of the players Sven ultimately picked.
re Gerrard's tiredness. We agree that in the last 2 years he's not had much rest periods. But as you said, the Cup was 13 May, and the first WC match was June 10. That's several weeks off in my book I suspect, that unlike you, I'm ignoring training sessions when I say he had time off.
Either way, it's a WC quarterfinal - if he can't get the energy from somewhere then there's something wrong. Which is why I attribute it more to a mental issue with him, not physical. Again, his penalty was a truly pathetic effort - have you ever seen him take a kick like that before?
Now, I don't wish for your mind to be boggled any longer so I'll try and explain what I meant about the difference between defender tiredness and Gerrard (though I suspect you know full well ).
60, 70 minutes into a game and all players are tired. Their reaction times are a little slower, their recovery periods are slightly longer. Bring on a pacy player like Lennon and he'll cause all sorts of problems. But I repeat, did he actually do anything with his runs (with the one notable exception)?
The Gerrard tiredness I understand you want to attribute to him is a general tiredness, right from the kick-off, where right from the beginning he was only at 90% freshness. Like I said, I'm not convinced. According to the Eurosport website he played 44 matches in the 2005/6 season, which isn't a huge total.
And yes, Sven had many failings, which is why I wrote "His biggest failing". I'm not a fan of his at all.
But for me, the bottom line is despite/because of Sven England got to a penalty shootout of a WC quarterfinal playing 10 against 11, and the players failed to convert from 12 yards. It wasn't Sven who got himself sent off, it wasn't Sven who missed the kicks. It wasn't Sven when Lampard failed to make decent contact with the ball when he had his half chances (which he does week in week out for Chelsea). Oh, and I think this tournament has probably scuppered his chances of a big money move to Barcelona!
Cheers,
David
PS I checked the Champions League penalty shootout, and Carra was not one of the takers then. Curiouser and curioser........
re Gerrard's tiredness. We agree that in the last 2 years he's not had much rest periods. But as you said, the Cup was 13 May, and the first WC match was June 10. That's several weeks off in my book I suspect, that unlike you, I'm ignoring training sessions when I say he had time off.
Well, training in the heat of the summer is not time off in my book. lol Time off is time without having to touch a ball...or run...or...train. Since when is training for a world cup considered weeks "off"? Maybe you know something about Eriksson's training methods that we don't? lol
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Either way, it's a WC quarterfinal - if he can't get the energy from somewhere then there's something wrong. Which is why I attribute it more to a mental issue with him, not physical. Again, his penalty was a truly pathetic effort - have you ever seen him take a kick like that before?
Something wrong is being physically and mentally exhausted. He still managed to go forward and make some crosses when hardly anyone else was doing much of anything. Guess you missed that.
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, 70 minutes into a game and all players are tired. Their reaction times are a little slower, their recovery periods are slightly longer. Bring on a pacy player like Lennon and he'll cause all sorts of problems. But I repeat, did he actually do anything with his runs (with the one notable exception)?
He made a few runs which helped "disengage" the team and move forward. And I don't know about notable exceptions. One notable exception that leads to a goal is enough to win games. Of course, when you count on Chelski players to know how to shoot from inside the box...that's where it gets tricky.
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The Gerrard tiredness I understand you want to attribute to him is a general tiredness, right from the kick-off, where right from the beginning he was only at 90% freshness. Like I said, I'm not convinced. According to the Eurosport website he played 44 matches in the 2005/6 season, which isn't a huge total.
Yeah, I'm "trying" to attribute it to him. Would it be possible to get the link to that stat from Eurosport? I just checked the LFC official stats and he played 53 games in all competitions(32 PL,1 LC,6 FA, 12 CL,2 WC). Including that ridiculous trip to Japan in the middle of the season for the world club championship. Nice try. Since July to May that's over a game a week. Yeah, no reason he should've been tired considering he had almost no rest after 04-05 to begin with.
By the way, his penalty was awful. And yeah, I've seen him kick them worst than that. Never been strong at them.
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But for me, the bottom line is despite/because of Sven England got to a penalty shootout of a WC quarterfinal playing 10 against 11, and the players failed to convert from 12 yards.
England only played well in the first half against Sweden. After that, this team has been disappointing. They were outplayed by argentina at home in a friendly but miraculously scored a couple goals at the end of the game to pull it off. Two good games the last couple of years. Scandals. Poor player selection. Ridiculous formations. Poor penalty kicker selection. Carragher??? Oh boy.
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It wasn't Sven when Lampard failed to make decent contact with the ball when he had his half chances (which he does week in week out for Chelsea). Oh, and I think this tournament has probably scuppered his chances of a big money move to Barcelona!
Don't forget Cole from 6 yards out. lol As a Barcelona fan since the days of Koeman, I would not pay a tenth of whatever Chelsea would ask for him. With a midfield of Xavi, Messi, Edmilson, Iniesta, Deco...he'd have a hard time breaking into the starting line-up.
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PS I checked the Champions League penalty shootout, and Carra was not one of the takers then. Curiouser and curioser........
I'd say, your case keeps weakening on Eriksson. And Carra for that matter.
That's it. I waste all of Saturday watching England and Brazil get their marching orders, and now I've spent all evening listening to those Italians driving up and down the street honking horns and waving flags at every third intersection.
We're going to a France - Italy final. Unless Portugal - who should have been banned from soccer for half a decade after the '12 card' Netherlands game - pulls off an upset win.
Is it too late to start this thing all over again?
That's it. I waste all of Saturday watching England and Brazil get their marching orders, and now I've spent all evening listening to those Italians driving up and down the street honking horns and waving flags at every third intersection.
We're going to a France - Italy final. Unless Portugal - who should have been banned from soccer for half a decade after the '12 card' Netherlands game - pulls off an upset win.
Is it too late to start this thing all over again?
For the number of games Gerrard played, I?m happy to stand corrected ? The Liverpool FC website is probably more accurate than the Eurosport player profile section.
However, I still think the question of tiredness after 44 or 53 matches is an interesting one, and whether training ?counts? in terms of a player?s level of tiredness. My view has long been that physical activity of itself is not the defining factor, it?s the emotional intensity of the activity.
To illustrate what I mean, take golf. It is not a strenuous activity, but players who play for 8 straight weeks talk of being knackered ? that?s because they are mentally fighting for victory day after day. When they take a week off, I bet they still go to the range, or play a round of golf. But since it doesn?t matter (in terms of winning, prize money etc), then it isn?t tiring.
Another example is Daley Thompson (I don?t know what nationality you are, so apologies if this doesn?t mean much), who was a world and Olympic decathlon champion. He trained hard every day of the year. And that included Christmas day, as he liked the idea of his competitors taking that day off and yet he was still out there training. So daily training didn?t make him tired, only competitions. That?s why when teams fly to Dubai for a friendly match I don?t think it really tires the players, as victory or defeat is not important and the game is fairly relaxed. But to play at the intensity of the Italy Germany match last night every 3 or 4 days ? that will tire anybody.
I feel I know a little of what I speak, as I used to sail boats at a very high level (World and European Championship level, though sadly my best placement was 4th in the world, and 3rd in the European so I never made the top rung) and the difference between a championship race and a training sail was huge in terms of effort, though physically they were the same.
Anyway, let?s just agree to disagree on this aspect ? but at least we agree that the Gerrard at the World cup was not the Gerrard of the Cup final or the Champions League final, or indeed most of the Premier league last year. Or do we?!
As to Sven, when you say ?My case keeps on weakening on Eriksson? it seems to me you're saying that I?ve been defending him. I?m not! In my very first post I talked of Sven?s ?main mistake?, which implies he?s made many more. As for Carra and penalties, I was passing on the info that apparently in training he was the second best penalty taker in the entire squad, hence he was brought on. When I looked at the champions league final and found he wasn?t one of the takers, I said ?curiouser and curiouser?, as that seems yet another Sven mistake.
So I agree with you about Sven ? dodgy player selection (let?s not even begin to discuss Walcott), daft formations 4-1-4-1. But penalty takers? Hargreaves ? scored. Gerrard and Lampard ? regular takers for their clubs. Carra ? wrong (Crouch maybe should have taken one before Carra, but remember Owen, Rooney and Beckham weren?t on the pitch).
One of my friends suggested that before the knock-out matches begin, the penalties should be taken. That way, one of the teams knows they're going to be fucked if they don't make something happen during regulation.
Comments
you wrote "By the netherlands i suppose u mean the dutch". I've often wondered about the distinction between Holland and The Netherlands. Which is the official name? Someone once told me that Holland only covers 2 out of the 9 'districts', and that The Netherlands is the whole country.
However, since I'm not sure that The Netherlands has 9 districts in the first place, and we were pretty drunk at the time, I don't know whether the above is true or not.
Any idea?
re the football - England went out because big name players went missing in action during the game (Rooney, obviously, Gerrard and Lampard) and because the players didn't have the 'bottle' to take some penalties.
Some people persist in claiming that penalty shootouts are a lottery. Rubbish. Shootouts are a test of technical ability plus mental strength. Get them together and you'll win.
The Times newspaper has analysed World Cup penalty shootouts, and state that Germany have scored 17 out of 18 chances. England only 7 out of 14 taken. That is not a lottery.
Cheers,
David
Originally posted by iMac David
re the football - England went out because big name players went missing in action during the game (Rooney, obviously, Gerrard and Lampard) and because the players didn't have the 'bottle' to take some penalties.
Some people persist in claiming that penalty shootouts are a lottery. Rubbish. Shootouts are a test of technical ability plus mental strength. Get them together and you'll win.
The Times newspaper has analysed World Cup penalty shootouts, and state that Germany have scored 17 out of 18 chances. England only 7 out of 14 taken. That is not a lottery.
I agree with you for the most part. However I wouldn't blame Gerrard. He was exhausted. His last game had been in mid May(FA cup final) and in the extra time he could barely walk which makes his amazing goal even more impressive. The point is, Liverpool played over 60 games this season and had almost no time off to start the 2005 season. That's too much for a player.
Wanna blame players for not showing up who had no reason to be exhausted? How about Terry (he was a disaster on defense), Cole and Lampard? It wasn't Gerrard who missed shots inside the box vs. Portugal. I'm surprised you didn't mention Sven....a disaster of a manager. Why Lennon didn't play more is a good question....he was pretty effective every time he came in...and then he gets subbed in for Carragher of all people. Clueless.
Originally posted by SpcMs
By the netherlands i suppose u mean the dutch. And Germany in Dutch is Duitsland, so not something along the line of Alemania. Just so you know
Thanks. How could i have forgotten the Dutch way.
Duitsland sounds pretty neatly. I really like it.
I'm not sure about Gerrard being exhausted because of the Cup Final. He arrived in Germany fully fit, he had several weeks off before the tournament, and he didn't strike me as knackered, more............ I don't know, disinterested is the wrong word, maybe unsure of himself. He wasn't strutting, saying 'give me the ball, I'm THE man' which he does for Liverpool week in week out.
You mentioned Cole, Lampard and Terry. Lampard I did already blame. Terry - to be honest I thought he had a more than decent tournament. Yes, he did make the odd mistake which is rare for him, but on balance I thought he was a rock. Cole - for me he's a funny player. Can be infuriating, can be excellent (though to be fair over the last year or so he's mainly the latter). Against Portugal he didn't do too much while he was on. So I'll agree, for that match, I'll put him down as another 'missing in action'.
Before I get to Sven, I'll mention Lennon. For the time being I don't rate him. He mainly came on when opposition defenders were tired, and I totally agree that he went past them more often than not as though they were not there. But, an important but, can you remember a single decent telling pass/cross that he did with that ability (with the single exception of the dribble into the Portugal box) in all the time he was on? He seems to rarely, if ever, lift his head and see what is going on around him to make his runs more effective. But he is young, so we'll see for the future. (I read the Carragher substitution was because Carra was the second best penalty taker during England practices during the tournament).
Sven. His biggest failing was the failure to get Lampard and Gerrard to play in the same team. If it really was impossible, then he should have had the nerve to go 4 4 2 with a midfield of Beckham, Hargreaves, Gerrard Cole with a front two of Crouch and Rooney. Then maybe Gerrard would have been free of the mental shackles he was playing under (my opinion, of course), and Rooney would not have spent the 60 minutes against Portugal frustrated and angry because when he did get the ball there was no-one around him to support.
Cheers,
David
Originally posted by iMac David
I'm not sure about Gerrard being exhausted because of the Cup Final. He arrived in Germany fully fit, he had several weeks off before the tournament, and he didn't strike me as knackered, more............ I don't know, disinterested is the wrong word, maybe unsure of himself. He wasn't strutting, saying 'give me the ball, I'm THE man' which he does for Liverpool week in week out.
I never said he was exhausted "because" of the WC. You said that, not me. Did you watch the FA Cup final? In the extra-time...did you miss Gerrard barely able to walk? Here are the facts: the LFC campaign finished later than everyone else in 2005-06 due to the FA final which went to penalty kicks. Considering the FA cup final was on the 13th of MAY 06 and the WC started June 9th(England arrived in Germany AFTER the pre-WC camp on the 5th of June to play their first game on the 10th) Gerrard did not have "several weeks off" as you said. FACT.
Rewind to 2005. The 2005 season for LFC started earlier than anyone else's because they had to qualify for the CL due to their 5th place finish in the Premiership. Their first game was July 13th....which means pre-season started earlier aswell. By the way, Gerrard scored a hat-trick that day. FACT.
As Benitez said after the FA final: "We needed to keep going but after 63 games it was really difficult." If 63 games isn't one marathon season I don't know what is....especially since like you said Gerrard is the man. So there you have it. Very little rest in 2 years for Gerrard. FACT.
You mentioned Cole, Lampard and Terry. Lampard I did already blame. Terry - to be honest I thought he had a more than decent tournament. Yes, he did make the odd mistake which is rare for him, but on balance I thought he was a rock.
What kind of rock? Crumbly lava rock maybe.
And Cole, like you said...missing in action....for most of the cup except for Sweden...although besides that great goal he didn't really do that much.
Before I get to Sven, I'll mention Lennon. For the time being I don't rate him. He mainly came on when opposition defenders were tired, and I totally agree that he went past them more often than not as though they were not there.
Me neither...rating Lennon...except for his WC performance when he did play. Funny how you can attribute "tiredness" to the opposing defenders but not to Gerrard. That's mindboggling to me. And Lennon was the only one adding depth and willing to go at defenders...except for Rooney and Cole with his silly looking and innefective "bicycles". And God save England if Carra was the second best penalty taker for England! I find that surreal to be honest...and that's even though I love him to death for what he's done for Liverpool FC through the years. And when Sven said he'd start him at the ball holding role I thought he was joking in a bizarro world kind of way. He wasn't.
Sven. His biggest failing was the failure to get Lampard and Gerrard to play in the same team. If it really was impossible, then he should have had the nerve to go 4 4 2 with a midfield of Beckham, Hargreaves, Gerrard Cole with a front two of Crouch and Rooney. Then maybe Gerrard would have been free of the mental shackles he was playing under (my opinion, of course), and Rooney would not have spent the 60 minutes against Portugal frustrated and angry because when he did get the ball there was no-one around him to support.
I tend to agree with you about Lampard+Gerrard but Sven had MANY failings. His England team selection. His tactics, his substitutions, his system with only one striker. His "distractions". This team had a lot of potential....which is too bad because I don't see too many great young players coming out of England and many have said this was the best "batch" of talent in many years irregardless of the players Sven ultimately picked.
Cheers.
re Gerrard's tiredness. We agree that in the last 2 years he's not had much rest periods. But as you said, the Cup was 13 May, and the first WC match was June 10. That's several weeks off in my book
Either way, it's a WC quarterfinal - if he can't get the energy from somewhere then there's something wrong. Which is why I attribute it more to a mental issue with him, not physical. Again, his penalty was a truly pathetic effort - have you ever seen him take a kick like that before?
Now, I don't wish for your mind to be boggled any longer
60, 70 minutes into a game and all players are tired. Their reaction times are a little slower, their recovery periods are slightly longer. Bring on a pacy player like Lennon and he'll cause all sorts of problems. But I repeat, did he actually do anything with his runs (with the one notable exception)?
The Gerrard tiredness I understand you want to attribute to him is a general tiredness, right from the kick-off, where right from the beginning he was only at 90% freshness. Like I said, I'm not convinced. According to the Eurosport website he played 44 matches in the 2005/6 season, which isn't a huge total.
And yes, Sven had many failings, which is why I wrote "His biggest failing". I'm not a fan of his at all.
But for me, the bottom line is despite/because of Sven England got to a penalty shootout of a WC quarterfinal playing 10 against 11, and the players failed to convert from 12 yards. It wasn't Sven who got himself sent off, it wasn't Sven who missed the kicks. It wasn't Sven when Lampard failed to make decent contact with the ball when he had his half chances (which he does week in week out for Chelsea). Oh, and I think this tournament has probably scuppered his chances of a big money move to Barcelona!
Cheers,
David
PS I checked the Champions League penalty shootout, and Carra was not one of the takers then. Curiouser and curioser........
Germany fell apart???
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Eh.
Germany fell apart???
That was two goals in what, 15 seconds?
Has there been a better competitive match in this WC?
Originally posted by iMac David
re Gerrard's tiredness. We agree that in the last 2 years he's not had much rest periods. But as you said, the Cup was 13 May, and the first WC match was June 10. That's several weeks off in my book
Well, training in the heat of the summer is not time off in my book. lol Time off is time without having to touch a ball...or run...or...train. Since when is training for a world cup considered weeks "off"? Maybe you know something about Eriksson's training methods that we don't? lol
Either way, it's a WC quarterfinal - if he can't get the energy from somewhere then there's something wrong. Which is why I attribute it more to a mental issue with him, not physical. Again, his penalty was a truly pathetic effort - have you ever seen him take a kick like that before?
Something wrong is being physically and mentally exhausted. He still managed to go forward and make some crosses when hardly anyone else was doing much of anything. Guess you missed that.
, 70 minutes into a game and all players are tired. Their reaction times are a little slower, their recovery periods are slightly longer. Bring on a pacy player like Lennon and he'll cause all sorts of problems. But I repeat, did he actually do anything with his runs (with the one notable exception)?
He made a few runs which helped "disengage" the team and move forward. And I don't know about notable exceptions. One notable exception that leads to a goal is enough to win games. Of course, when you count on Chelski players to know how to shoot from inside the box...that's where it gets tricky.
The Gerrard tiredness I understand you want to attribute to him is a general tiredness, right from the kick-off, where right from the beginning he was only at 90% freshness. Like I said, I'm not convinced. According to the Eurosport website he played 44 matches in the 2005/6 season, which isn't a huge total.
Yeah, I'm "trying" to attribute it to him. Would it be possible to get the link to that stat from Eurosport? I just checked the LFC official stats and he played 53 games in all competitions(32 PL,1 LC,6 FA, 12 CL,2 WC). Including that ridiculous trip to Japan in the middle of the season for the world club championship. Nice try. Since July to May that's over a game a week. Yeah, no reason he should've been tired considering he had almost no rest after 04-05 to begin with.
By the way, his penalty was awful. And yeah, I've seen him kick them worst than that. Never been strong at them.
But for me, the bottom line is despite/because of Sven England got to a penalty shootout of a WC quarterfinal playing 10 against 11, and the players failed to convert from 12 yards.
England only played well in the first half against Sweden. After that, this team has been disappointing. They were outplayed by argentina at home in a friendly but miraculously scored a couple goals at the end of the game to pull it off. Two good games the last couple of years. Scandals. Poor player selection. Ridiculous formations. Poor penalty kicker selection. Carragher??? Oh boy.
It wasn't Sven when Lampard failed to make decent contact with the ball when he had his half chances (which he does week in week out for Chelsea). Oh, and I think this tournament has probably scuppered his chances of a big money move to Barcelona!
Don't forget Cole from 6 yards out. lol As a Barcelona fan since the days of Koeman, I would not pay a tenth of whatever Chelsea would ask for him. With a midfield of Xavi, Messi, Edmilson, Iniesta, Deco...he'd have a hard time breaking into the starting line-up.
PS I checked the Champions League penalty shootout, and Carra was not one of the takers then. Curiouser and curioser........
I'd say, your case keeps weakening on Eriksson. And Carra for that matter.
After the drubbing they got from Italy 4-1 in March, you could see this one coming.
Ouch.
We're going to a France - Italy final. Unless Portugal - who should have been banned from soccer for half a decade after the '12 card' Netherlands game - pulls off an upset win.
Is it too late to start this thing all over again?
Originally posted by Frank777
That's it. I waste all of Saturday watching England and Brazil get their marching orders, and now I've spent all evening listening to those Italians driving up and down the street honking horns and waving flags at every third intersection.
We're going to a France - Italy final. Unless Portugal - who should have been banned from soccer for half a decade after the '12 card' Netherlands game - pulls off an upset win.
Is it too late to start this thing all over again?
Damned straight! Mulligan!
For the number of games Gerrard played, I?m happy to stand corrected ? The Liverpool FC website is probably more accurate than the Eurosport player profile section.
http://eurosport.co.uk/football/personnews_prs723.shtml
However, I still think the question of tiredness after 44 or 53 matches is an interesting one, and whether training ?counts? in terms of a player?s level of tiredness. My view has long been that physical activity of itself is not the defining factor, it?s the emotional intensity of the activity.
To illustrate what I mean, take golf. It is not a strenuous activity, but players who play for 8 straight weeks talk of being knackered ? that?s because they are mentally fighting for victory day after day. When they take a week off, I bet they still go to the range, or play a round of golf. But since it doesn?t matter (in terms of winning, prize money etc), then it isn?t tiring.
Another example is Daley Thompson (I don?t know what nationality you are, so apologies if this doesn?t mean much), who was a world and Olympic decathlon champion. He trained hard every day of the year. And that included Christmas day, as he liked the idea of his competitors taking that day off and yet he was still out there training. So daily training didn?t make him tired, only competitions. That?s why when teams fly to Dubai for a friendly match I don?t think it really tires the players, as victory or defeat is not important and the game is fairly relaxed. But to play at the intensity of the Italy Germany match last night every 3 or 4 days ? that will tire anybody.
I feel I know a little of what I speak, as I used to sail boats at a very high level (World and European Championship level, though sadly my best placement was 4th in the world, and 3rd in the European so I never made the top rung) and the difference between a championship race and a training sail was huge in terms of effort, though physically they were the same.
Anyway, let?s just agree to disagree on this aspect ? but at least we agree that the Gerrard at the World cup was not the Gerrard of the Cup final or the Champions League final, or indeed most of the Premier league last year. Or do we?!
As to Sven, when you say ?My case keeps on weakening on Eriksson? it seems to me you're saying that I?ve been defending him. I?m not! In my very first post I talked of Sven?s ?main mistake?, which implies he?s made many more. As for Carra and penalties, I was passing on the info that apparently in training he was the second best penalty taker in the entire squad, hence he was brought on. When I looked at the champions league final and found he wasn?t one of the takers, I said ?curiouser and curiouser?, as that seems yet another Sven mistake.
So I agree with you about Sven ? dodgy player selection (let?s not even begin to discuss Walcott), daft formations 4-1-4-1. But penalty takers? Hargreaves ? scored. Gerrard and Lampard ? regular takers for their clubs. Carra ? wrong (Crouch maybe should have taken one before Carra, but remember Owen, Rooney and Beckham weren?t on the pitch).
Cheers,
David