Star Wars: AotC

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  • Reply 81 of 164
    falconfalcon Posts: 458member
    [quote]There's something going on there that we're not expecting. It will not be as simple as Sidious takes off his hood to reveal Palpatine.<hr></blockquote>

    There has been a lot of speculation that Palpatine is Sidious' clone. Im sort of divided on this. It would be an elaborate cover-up and certainly a suprise, it would also explain why the Jedi havent detected him. Becuase Sidious can hide far away (or at least far away enough that he can accuratly cover himself.) And Palpatine has no dark evil Jedi skills for them to detect but he is under complete controll of Sidious.



    [quote]TAnd why do all the clones have an australian accent?<hr></blockquote>

    Becuase they are all cloned from Jango Fett. Notice that on Kamino in the "cafeteria" they all looked startingly like him. And the Kaminens said that Jango was the gentic doner. Now why Bobo (who is also a clone of Jango) and the other child Jango clones dont look alike I really cant say.



    Also just a thought of mine if the Clones have excellerated growth. Do they also have a faster aging process?



    I really enjoyed EPII. Yeah there where some "stick a gun in your mouth" scenes. But on a whole it rocked. And not just the last 30-40 minutes. The chace through Coresaunt was pure StarWars goodness for me. And the charges that Jango let off in the asteroid belt where great. Good sound.

    If you look closely you can see one of the animals that Anikin rides on Naboo floating in the asteroid belt. Also when Anikin and Padme are first arriving on Naboo there are like 2 or so Millenium Falcons docked. Easter eggs are yummy.



    I had more fun watching EPII than any other StarWars movie ever. I thought Empire and Jedi where cool, but this just blows Jedi and ANH completely away, and is probably on par if not a smidge ahead of Empire.



    [ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: Falcon ]</p>
  • Reply 82 of 164
    g4dudeg4dude Posts: 1,016member
    agreed
  • Reply 83 of 164
    [quote]Originally posted by Belle:

    <strong>

    Ah, well, I guess this says it all. We got ourselves a Return of the Jedi fan here. Therefore your opinion doesn't count. </strong><hr></blockquote>

    Anybody seen the movie Clerks?
  • Reply 84 of 164
    fran441fran441 Posts: 3,715member
    First of all, as far as movies go (in general), AotC was an all right one.



    But as a Star Wars movie, this one stunk up the screen. I just got back from seeing it a few minutes ago, and it was pretty bad (IMO).



    I'll post more later, but the chemistry/magic of the first series just wasn't there in this movie. I'm going to sleep on it- maybe the movie will grow on me.
  • Reply 85 of 164
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    I think I know why "Star Wars" is such a divisive thing these days.



    Upon my second viewing (just as in "The Phantom Menace"), I found myself truly bored and anxious to get back home.







    I can honestly say that I NEVER felt that, either as a kid watching them for the very first time, OR in any subsequent video/TV viewings, of the original trilogy.



    There's simply something missing in these two newer ones that were abundant in the original trilogy.



    Heart. A simple story. Yes, the acting could be just as hokey and the dialogue as overstuffed and corny, BUT the charisma of Harrison Ford carried it through the rough patches. The feistiness of Carrie Fisher. Artoon and Threepio were funny and heroic and worthy of our adoration.



    There seems to be no spark or life in these two newer additions to the franchise. None of the actors seem to be particularly "acting" or hitting their mark. There are a couple of lines spoken by Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor during the movie that makes it so obvious they were acting with a tennis ball or green screen.



    For all the advances in CGI and digital this and computerized that, there isn't 1/10th of the charm or wide-eyed awe that you got from watching any of the original three movies.



    I rooted for Luke, Leia, Han and the rest before. There's just something about this new bunch, the way it's written, acted, played out, etc. that just makes me go "so?".



    I know. Things have changed. It's a lot different world now than 25 years ago. In some ways, this stuff is old hat and it's tougher to impress a new generation of people, especially when your average video game or cartoon has as much computer animation and effects as a full-tilt major Hollywood sci-fi flick.



    But even beyond that, if you could somehow strip away the effects and eye candy, I don't think most of us can latch onto this newer stuff.



    Maybe part of the charm and ease of the original trilogy WAS indeed the simple "good vs. bad" nature of it. Things were clear cut and got right to it. Not a lot of long, ponderous talk about Senate votes, squabbles, Trade Federations, political maneuvering, etc.



    I remember sitting in the theater during "The Phantom Menace" and, in addition to being tortured by Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar, thinking "who in the hell can follow this or sink their teeth into it?".



    Lucas seems to have lost something along the way. In all honesty, it seems like, in some ways, he's embraced the culture of the "jawdropping money shot" school of filmmaking.



    There's a lot of grand eye candy in both of these films, but there's nothing behind it. I can clearly imagine George Lucas sitting behind his animators or CGI people at ILM with a cup of coffee and saying, all day long, "there's a space in this frame...we need something there. Drop in a goofy-looking character doing something cute".



    Does anyone else get that feeling? It's almost as if Lucas knows now that with computer and digital effects, ANYTHING is possible. And he, being who he is and completely running the show, has never learned restraint, or simply had someone say to him "George, that's kinda lame and doesn't really need to be there...".



    There's just something not there. Charm, wit, a lack of self-consciousness by the actors.



    I don't know, exactly. But there is a long, long step from the original trilogy to these new movies. And for all the advances in the visual arena, it seems that the storytelling and character aspect of it has taken a bit of a backseat.



    Upon my second viewing, I was looking closer at the FX. And when it isn't done right, then do it the old fashioned way. It looks better. That Dex guy Obi Wan met (with the four arms and baggy pants) looked PAINFULLY lame and "not there". As did the room of Chancellor Palpatine. You can see these fake shadows under the feet of everyone when they walk.



    In two scenes in the movie, Anakin rode atop a large alien animal of some sort. Once for fun, once for his life. Both of those scenes completely stunned me in their lack of realism, regarding the CGI. I would just as soon see them revert to the tried-and-true method of stop animation and close-ups with fake animals being manipulated by crews underneath (like they did with the tauntauns from "Empire") than to see this goofy-looking, herky-jerky and not quite convincing image of a guy riding a big space rhino or whatever.



    I heard that the principal shooting, involving the actual human actors, was done in less than 60 days. And that the past 18-24 months has just been the CGI and stuff.



    To me, that speaks VOLUMES. Pretty much nails it on the head, doesn't it. Look what's getting the most attention and effort!



    No wonder these newer movies ring a bit hollow. Every review I've read (including the informal, fan-based ones here) ALL lament the acting, story and character development.



    Or lack of it.



    What doesn't this dawn on Mr. Lucas? I guess because nobody would ever step up and say anything.
  • Reply 85 of 164
    g4dudeg4dude Posts: 1,016member
    I think all you Star Wars nerds out there just have unreal expectations. After worshiping Empire Strikes Back, you guys are setting yourselves up for a letdown. Grow up.
  • Reply 87 of 164
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    anyone here read "the second coming of steve jobs"? reason i say is that they get into a slight side-story about george lucas, pixar and steve, and they mention something thta i didn't know about star wars that should tell everyone a lot...



    one of the oscars that the original star wars won was for EDITING... the primary editor was george's WIFE... they even got divorced after the whole star wars trilogy was finished, citing it as putting too much of a strain on them.



    so his wife was the only one with enough balls to tell george lucas he was full of himself and left stuff on the cutting room floor where it belonged.



    and now, what you are seeing, is george lucas running amok with a budget like no other. <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />



    oh, and a friend of mine said it best: "these two movies serve as proof of how much harrison ford's ad-libbing and carrie fisher brought to the original series." heck, these movies NEED a han solo type character who can look at obi wan and anakin and point out how ludicrous all this can be at times, and bring it all back down to earth once in a while (or tatooine, i guess).



    [ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: rok ]</p>
  • Reply 88 of 164
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    [quote]Originally posted by Belle:

    <strong>

    Isn't this the big joke though? That "the one" mentioned in the prophecy that will bring balance to the force is Anakin/Darth Vader, and that the balance of the force has been on the Light side for much too long (and is as corrupt and evil as the Dark side, if you believe the article discussed in the other thread).



    [ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    hey belle, i think the balance that anakin brings is that he eventually saves luke's life, kills palpatine, and ends his own evil reign. just a thought...
  • Reply 89 of 164
    logan calelogan cale Posts: 1,281member
    No, Belle is correct. The Jedi were become full of themselves and corrupt. Anakin brought balance to it by wiping out the Jedi for three decades. In the end, only Luke remained to begin a new generation of Force users.
  • Reply 90 of 164
    bellebelle Posts: 1,574member
    [quote]Originally posted by rok:

    <strong>hey belle, i think the balance that anakin brings is that he eventually saves luke's life, kills palpatine, and ends his own evil reign. just a thought...</strong><hr></blockquote>

    And so the Dark side is defeated. Is there another meaning of the word "balance" that the rest world has been hiding from me?
  • Reply 91 of 164
    kaboomkaboom Posts: 286member
    /me reads pscates post

    /me nods sadly in agreement

    /me has nothing to add to that post



    You took the words out of my mouth Paul.
  • Reply 92 of 164
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,015member
    Those of you expecting Lucas to recreate the originals have unrealistic expectations.



    I went to see the movie again last night with my brother and my wife (who was there on Friday with me as well). My brother, who is a pretty tough critic, really liked it. This is a guy who really rips up movies with one liners and what not....and he really liked it. You know why? Because he likes Star Wars. He is willing to overlook the minor plot holes and cheesy dialogue, because he knows those are there with the others as well.



    Once again, it is people that have changed. Lucas doesn't intend to recreate the same frenzy as some of you think. He never predicted it in the first place when making the originals. He was shocked at the reaction, because the original movie almost didn't get released at all due to editing problems and special effects nightmares. Same with the special editions....he said it was just supposed to be a 20th anniversary edit for the fans....not a worldwide revival like it basically became. He was again shocked.



    These new movies are for the fans, and to a lesser extent the general public. Once again, I do have some problems with Episode 1, particularly the overuse of Jar-Jar and lack of action, but it sets up the other films well as it is supposed to do. This one puts TPM to shame. It shows the beginnings of Empire very well. And sorry folks, I think they WAY in which he explains the creation of storm troopers is magnificent. The plot is deeper, the effects are more spectactular, the feel is darker, and as a musician, I really LIKE the score as well. I can't get the Anakin/Amidala theme out of my head.



    I can't explain it better than that. I was drawn into this movie. I was pumped when I left the theatre on Friday and also Saturday. It was great.



    Some of you guys are so critical and cynical. I wonder what you would ahve thought of the originals if you had the same attitudes you have now. And for the younger ones, which I know doesn't include all of you, I think the fact that someone who was born in 1987 could rip apart this movie is almost laughable. And NOT just because of your age, my friends. It is because Star Wars wasn't created in your generation. I am almost too young myself. I have found (as has my wife who also deals with kids as a teacher) that the younger crowd tends to look at these movies as separate films, judged entirely by today's standards. But these films set up others that were created 25 years ago.



    These films must be looked at as part of a bigger picture, that is, the entire series. When seeing it that way, they do their job very well and are quite entertaining.



    For God's own sake......they are MOVIES....lay off.



    [ 05-19-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
  • Reply 93 of 164
    bellebelle Posts: 1,574member
    [quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:

    <strong>These new movies are for the fans, and to a lesser extent the general public.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    What an odd thing to say. As far as I can tell, the vast majority of people here expressing disappointment are fans, and that goes for disappointment expressed elsewhere, and negative criticism in the press.



    To suggest that Phantom Menace was "for the fans" and not "the general public" is nonsense. Many complaints are based on the premise that Phantom Menace was made to attract a wider audience - including Jar Jar Binks.



    You seem to be setting a standard for those of us who can consider ourselves "fans". Does expressing discontent suddenly make you unworthy of the title? Is unadulterated sycophancy a requirement?



    Even Lucas and Rick McCallum have admitted that Phantom Menace was aimed at a much wider audience, and that Attack of the Clones was adjusted to atone "fans".



    I think it's quite clear that if there's any cynicism involved here, it lies with Lucas, and the transformation of Star Wars into a marketing machine. As you say, the original movies had no such lofty aims. Star Wars struggled to find finance and a distributor, and were better movies for it.



    You're right, it's just a movie, and so why aren't the detractors allowed an opinion?



    Why am I so disappointed? Same reason a lot of movies disappoint me - that great source material is wasted with bad direction.



    The storyline for Star Wars is fantastic. I love mythology, and Star Wars draws on some of my favorite stories (Including Oedipus Rex despite objections above). And yet the value of these stories has been lost in the translation to the screen. pscates is right. The new movies have no soul. The audience doesn't feel the necessary sympathy/hero-worship/hatred/whatever that's necessary to involve them in the film. Does Darth Maul or Count Dooku strike fear into you the way Vader does? Do you feel sympathy for the hapless Shakespearean R2-D2 and C3PO, or do you hate their clowning? Are there characters in the new movies as worthy of adoration as Han Solo or Leia?



    [ 05-19-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
  • Reply 94 of 164
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    [quote]Originally posted by MacAgent:

    <strong>... In the end, only Luke remained to begin a new generation of Force users.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    ...ahem... and leia, too.



    how quickly they forget.
  • Reply 95 of 164
    logan calelogan cale Posts: 1,281member
    [quote]Originally posted by rok:

    <strong>



    ...ahem... and leia, too.



    how quickly they forget. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Er, right, Leia too.
  • Reply 96 of 164
    bellebelle Posts: 1,574member
    On a side note, was there an explanation as to why, in Phantom Menace, the Jedi Council considers Anakin "too old" to begin training, and yet ol' Ben Kenobi and Yoda managed to get Luke up to Jedi status in no time at all?
  • Reply 97 of 164
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    [quote]The audience doesn't feel the necessary sympathy/hero-worship/hatred/whatever that's necessary to involve them in the film.<hr></blockquote>



    Question necessary to unlock this issue:

    How old were you when you first saw Star Wars?

    How old are you now?



    You are old and cynical now.

    When you were little you were willing to overlook Mark Hammil's annoying acting. You LOVED those annoying goddam Ewoks. You were scared as hell of Vader.



    Well guess what young people today think... they are willing to overlook Anakin's annoying acting. They LOVE the annoying goddam Jar-Jar Binks. They were scared as hell of Maul and they will be of the AOTC baddies.



    These movies really aren't for cynical old bastards who have thought too much about it. These people will ALWAYS be disappointed. I've heard people bitch about Fellowship of the Ring, and that's one of the best movie adaptations of a novel ever.
  • Reply 98 of 164
    tigerwoods99tigerwoods99 Posts: 2,633member
    Ewoks kick ass. the Ewoks made Star Wars in my opinion. How could you not love them?
  • Reply 99 of 164
    [quote]Originally posted by Belle:

    <strong>On a side note, was there an explanation as to why, in Phantom Menace, the Jedi Council considers Anakin "too old" to begin training, and yet ol' Ben Kenobi and Yoda managed to get Luke up to Jedi status in no time at all?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Quite possibly because they were the last 2 jedi alive, and or because they knew luke, the offspring of the vader was the one that would keep the jedi alive. Just a guess. I prolly wasn't very articulate with my explanation.
  • Reply 100 of 164
    majormattmajormatt Posts: 1,077member
    From the reviews I thought it would be much, much worse!



    I didnt consider the loves scenes too mushy, nor did I consider there was too much fighting.

    I give it a 95% and way better than Phantom Menance.



    It's always easy to knock something down. I'd say, lets these critics make a good movie!
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