<strong>You are old and cynical now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, careful there, bucko!
This is true, and while there may be an element of nostalgia in the fact I can watch the originals now and still see them as great movies, I think we're all capable of being objective about them.
You give a good example yourself, in Lord of the Rings. If I'm so cynical now, why did I feel the same kind of glow and sense of wonder seeing Fellowship at the age of 28 that I did seeing Empire Strikes Back when I was but 7?
If you apply the "rules" of filmmaking (You can mock the academia surrounding it, but those same rules of criticism are those the studios apply to creation) to the movies, the originals stand up very well regarding plot lines, character development, key moments, fundamental character traits, etc. The new movies, for the most part, do not.
The basic techniques used to generate fear surrounding characters (Vader, the ringwraiths in LotR) were not applied to any characters in AotC.
The heroics of the goodies which played such a big part in the original movies has been replaced by blind luck in the new movies (Compare the ingenuity of the shields being disabled on Endor and the subsequent attack on the Death Star with Jar Jar's ridiculous clowning on Naboo and Anakin's luck in destroying the control ship).
I know, I know, I'm just being old and cynical. I'd just like to add one more thing though...
Don't you think that Lucas is quite aware that his biggest audience for the new movies is not going to be kids? It's going to be the key demographic for that kind of movie, which is 18-35 year old men, the vast majority of whom will have seen the original movies...
As I said before, both Lucas and his producer admitted a major miscalculation with Phantom Menace, and they attempted to correct matters with AotC.
Of course, I don't fall into the demographic, so what do I know? I wanted to be Leia, though, and I had a crush on Han Solo. Still do, actually.
How about we ask your questions now, see how the people here shape up?
1. How old were you when you first saw Star Wars?
2. How old are you now?
Is there anyone who's gone to see Attack of the Clones without having an undying love for the original movies?
I see star wars in 1978 at the age of 12. Now i am 35.
I was really disapointed by episode 1 : this Jar Jar beam is totally stupid and not fun at all. Nothing to do with the ewoks who where fun and lovely. The battle of the ewoks was serious (dispite some jokes) there was emotion in it. The batlle with Jar Jar beam is clown and totally stupid.
Quite possibly because they were the last 2 jedi alive, and or because they knew luke, the offspring of the vader was the one that would keep the jedi alive. Just a guess. I prolly wasn't very articulate with my explanation.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You have the point : luke is the last chance and they have not time for his formation.
<strong>Quite possibly because they were the last 2 jedi alive, and or because they knew luke, the offspring of the vader was the one that would keep the jedi alive. Just a guess. I prolly wasn't very articulate with my explanation.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're probably right. Or perhaps it was the whole "Dad was a virgin birth and had super-high levels of midi-whatsits" thing?
Everything went downhill when the Ewoks appeared on screen...George lost it then. It became a kiddie movie. With kiddie toys and ideals. The Phantom Menace proved this with Jar Jar and the insertion of trendy characters and lines that echoed todays lingo. This IS supposed to be another universe far, far away...right?
I loved Star Wars in the beginning and the next two films kept me going...but The Phantom Menace was a pure Hollywood rip-off. George Lucas was a genius. But now he's another hack. But I guess by the box office results the blind will follow the blind.
For a better example of what I'm trying to say I'll have to let this reviewer explain...and after reading this...I'll spend my money on this movie (and the next one) at a rental store...
Also, BECAUSE I've seen the other movies I'm GOING TO BE much more critical of this one. As with everything, the more we see the more we EXPECT.
As for the cinematography, I thought the picture was kinda mushy. I saw Roger Ebert last night and he said that the digital projection version was much cleaner than the film print.
I saw "Star Wars" in 1977 with my parents and little sister. I was 8.
I'm 33 now.
But, like Belle said, there IS a difference. There wasn't a sense of dumb-luck and slapstick bungling in the original trilogy that there was in "The Phantom Menace".
I mean, we went from skimming down a trench at a gazillion miles an hour, navigating asteroids by sheer flying ability and staging a two-part assault on the Empire. All with the help of stolen plans, daring acts of heroism and guts, etc.
Compare that with Jar Jar trying to kick a laser rifle off his foot and "accidentally" killing five or six battle droids. Or releasing those big energy balls, again "accidentally".
Worst of all, that brat in the Naboo starfighter, saying things like "let's spin...that's a good trick!" and other stupid, corny phrases. I've said it before, but that scene, had I directed it, would've been SO much cooler and classier. Instead of being played for yuks and asking the audience to believe a 10-year-old can be THAT damn lucky and unflappable, I would've played it straight and serious: I would've shown Anakin become very serious and determined, and you'd get the sense that he was feeling The Force kinda guide him. That would be seen as a pivotal moment in his life, where he himself realized that perhaps he was special and was indeed meant for great things.
Instead, Lucas played it as a half-ass video game with Saturday morning cartoon improbabilities and "Full House" wisecracks.
Old and cynical or not, you can't deny the HUGE difference in tone between that movie and the original trilogy.
THAT'S why most people were let down or shocked. I'm not so old and cynical that I can't be roused by a well-made, heartstopping "good vs. bad" popcorn movie.
The "comic relief" in the original trilogy was laid on carefully. It wasn't thick and it wasn't constant. Between Jar Jar in "Phantom" and that idiot Threepio in the last 30 minutes of "Clones", that really stinks up a movie.
"I'm quite beside myself", "this is such a drag", "is my head on straight?", etc.
ONE of those could've done the trick, George. Two of them would've been overkill. And you go and pack on about four or five.
I think everyone here has seen the first movies before, right?
Well, if at every turn you are trying to analyze this movie with "He is going to be Darth Vader" it is quite a different movie.
Yet:By involving characters that reappear later, George Lucas gives another part of the Star Wars Universe. A history of where everyone came from. In the beginning, Uncle Owen could of been anyone, not necessarily his actual Uncle. Yet, now we know who he is and who is mother is and everything else like that.
Jar-Jar is a good character and he represents the gullible person who wants to belong.
Maybe, just maybe, if you saw these movies before the others, your outlook may be different. either better, or worse, but believe me, different
Let's see...movie came out in 77...take 1 away, add 3..I was 12 years old when I saw Star Wars.
I'm now 37.
Personally I liked EP2 as much as I like the original trio (4,5,6). I'm no star wars geek either.
I go to movies to enjoy myself. I bet I could go to any movie and critisize it to death like some of you guys have, but I don't. I'm just thrilled that Lucas actually is finishing them...only wish he would do the final 3 like he originally said he would!!
Sidenote, did anyone ever read that Time article back in the early 80's about these movies that are coming out now? Interesting..too bad I can't remember what they were about
It's going to be a tough...Spidey and AotC are going to be neck and neck by the time they are pulled from theaters. Spidey amassed $20M more yesterday (phenomenal for a third weekend.) Star Wars performed admirably as well with $32M, but the numbers for the day before that were pretty bad...
I expect AotC to last a bit longer, but Spidey definitely has legs.
<strong>I expect AotC to last a bit longer, but Spidey definitely has legs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, eight of them. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> Sorry, couldn't help it.
Saw Spidey again last night. What a comic book movie. As far as Star Wars is concerned...when the first one came out (and I saw it and the other three when they came out) it changed the genre of Sci-Fi on screen. Within a few months there were spin-offs on screen and TV (Battlestar Gallactica anyone?). Since then and after Lucas's hiatus the bar had been raised in production of films such as these.
Lucas (and ILM) was the trendsetter then but after movies like Aliens, Termiator, Matrix and LOTR he's gotten out of sync. Digital production won't work now unless all theatres can provide it. He also needs a lot of help in the screenwriting aspect of things. He should have another director take the project like he did with The Empire Strikes Back (which I think is the best of them all).
well, i have not seen the movie yet, but i will see it eventually. that's a given. now whether i see it in the theaters or on dvd, who knows?
i think i figured out most of the plot from the previews alone. but that's okay. heck, i'll see the last movie, knowing the ending's going to be the republic winning, obi wan and yoda going into self-exile, and the skywalker kids getting sent into hiding. i'll still see it, though.
i also didn't hate episode one as much as others. the trade agreements and stuff made sense to me as palpatine used politcal influence to mask his true pruposes. made sense to me. but i did hate two things very, very much int he first movie:
1. anakin's immaculate conception. i guess george did this so he wouldn't have to answer any questions about movies about anakin's father, but geez, that was a tough pill to swallow.
2. the explanation of "the force" - the single worst thing george could do to the whole bloody series. it colors my view every time i hear someone refer to it anymore. no more mystery. no more allusions to "faith" and ones own pure soul. just something in the mitochondria. great. thanks george. you're an ass.
i really miss someone like han solo going around with a swagger calling the little brat "kid" and such. it gave the audience someone they could identify with when everyone is trying to talk like some shakespeare rejects.
george, you have your wife's phone number (she edited the original series, and, apparently, george's penchant for form over function). call her, and show her your next script BEFORE you make the movie. it'll make it that much better.
I was finally able to watch a new Star Wars movie and 'get into the galaxy'.
Pure fantasyland fun.
It's late and I can't get into all the things that I thought were cool - like the street scene on Coruscant, the Library, the detective work by Obi Wan, seeing Owen Lars for the first time, actually wondering if Dooku may be a early Rebel leader...nah, couldn't be, could he?
Yeah, I liked the movie. I wasn't there to see if the special effects could fool me (none of that "Gee, does that spaceship look "real" or "could that actually be a real Alien!? Why doesn't it look like a "real" alien" nonsense.)
I just wanted to be told and shown more of the star wars story. That happened. I'm content.
<strong>Saw AOTC on Sat. night and had a great time.
I was finally able to watch a new Star Wars movie and 'get into the galaxy'.
Pure fantasyland fun.
It's late and I can't get into all the things that I thought were cool - like the street scene on Coruscant, the Library, the detective work by Obi Wan, seeing Owen Lars for the first time, actually wondering if Dooku may be a early Rebel leader...nah, couldn't be, could he?
Yeah, I liked the movie. I wasn't there to see if the special effects could fool me (none of that "Gee, does that spaceship look "real" or "could that actually be a real Alien!? Why doesn't it look like a "real" alien" nonsense.)
I just wanted to be told and shown more of the star wars story. That happened. I'm content. </strong><hr></blockquote>
My own enthusiasm at the end was tempered by my girlfriend's severe dislike. hmmm
I came in with 2 demands:
1) Anakin do something evil.
2) I be entertained for the duration of the flick.
*SPOILER ALERT*
I got both.
--
Belle & Paul:
You'll notice that a lot of your references to the "dumb luck" stuff is in reference to The Phantom Menace. This thread is about Episode II.
Not dumb luck in Episode II:
- catching the assassin
- kicking the droid army's ass
Two fairly major events, far more important than Jar-Jar's killing a few droids. And in defense of Anakin's taking out the droid control ship... it's Star Wars. Notice how they manage to ALWAYS MISS the good guys' ships except to take out the goddam shield generators for a few gut-wrenching moments!?
The Slave One destroys EVERYTHING in that asteroid field except Obi-Wans little ship. riiiiight
Unique-to-EpisodeII Complaints:
- They didn't make the Tuscan Raiders scary enough! Those damned things made me shit my pants when I was little, loud and huge. This time they were just chilling 'round the campfire, we should've at least had one full screen shot of one yelling loudly to scare us.
- Didn't show Anakin killing them enough. We get the info about his killing women and children later in a decently-acted (for a Star Wars main character) scene. (Question: This guy just killed women and children.. yet you, as a potential love interest, EMBRACE him!?)
Likes:
- Yoda kicks ass! The crowd loved it, cheering when he struck that kick-ass Bruce Lee pose. Total money shot, I loved it.
- Anakin killing the Tuscan Raiders and the subsequent scene where he admits it. I thought that scene was pretty good and pretty decently acted (I know, I'm going to get tomatoes thrown at me).
- Awesome special effects. The only huge gaffe I noticed was Count Dooku's perfectly still coiffure while riding the goddam speeder. A few backdrops looked a little off, but I attribute that to my being a total nerd. (My girlfriend is a benchmark for technical aspects, she doesn't know or care about the flaws unless they're obvious, so I go with her assessment since she's not a nerd like me.)
*END SPOILER ALERT*
Overall I liked it a lot. I think it was a hell of a lot better than The Phantom Menace and also better than Jedi. A solid #3 in the series behind Empire and A New Hope.
<strong>You'll notice that a lot of your references to the "dumb luck" stuff is in reference to The Phantom Menace. This thread is about Episode II. </strong><hr></blockquote>
True, but someone suggested that the reason we see the older movies in a better light than the new ones is because we were younger and less cynical. I was just pointing out there are some technical reasons why the earlier movies are better.
I'm usually easily pleased at the movies. Give me a bucket of Dr. Pepper and some butter popcorn and I'll sit through anything and be entertained. I've seen a bunch of movies in the last few weeks and two of them committed the ultimate sin - they got so boring at points that I was looking round the theater to see what other people were doing. One was Panic Room (Which is disappointing as I like David Fincher), and the other was Attack of the Clones, which bored me to tears for about an hour to ninety minutes.
It was still worth seeing for the scenes on the cloning planet and the spectacular destruction of the Naboo ship at the start.
I'm going to see it again tomorrow with a different set of friends. It'll be interesting to see how it views a second time...
If the Star Wars series wasn't PG13 they'd have the option of tackling some more intense emotions. Anakins confession of violence to Padme was a good scene that probably could have been better had the Director crafted the scene better.
Dialogue has never been a strongsuit of Star Wars but it REALLY has been poor lately. Anakin is reduced to sounding like a stubborn brat claiming that "It's not fair!" or "Obi Wan is jealous" I'm not asking for Tolkien style dialoge but my goodness!
Padme is stiff as a board during the first half of the movie making her disclosure of "Deeply" loving Anakin seem out of place.
I'll echo Eugene's sentiments on inconsitencies. Yoda at the end must conjure up the Force to protect Obi and Anakin from being squashed..when common sense says move the bodies.
All in all I liked the movie much more than TPM and look forward to EP3
Like I said, I saw it twice this weekend. I am more excited now than I was! Really, the more I think about it the more I like it. With TPM it was kind of the opposite.
The end is so awesome. I am willing to look past the cheesy parts. I have to get he soundtrack soon! AND, I can't wait to get this ****er on DVD.
<strong>EP II sucked. Where is the GENIUS of Lucas? 4-6 were based on so many great works of literature (weren't they? Oedipus Rex, obviously )</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uh, no. Try pulp sci-fi from the '50s and '60s. The best description of Star Wars itself that I can remember is "a western in space."
Now, there's nothing wrong with that. High camp can be fun. In fact, I didn't get disillusioned with SW because I found out it was campy (since that's kind of obvious), I got disillusioned when it started to look like Lucas was actually taking it seriously.
Also, the first series had Han Solo, who was just enough of a wisecracking smartass to keep things lively (and Harrison Ford was able to call Lucas on his BS, too). Without him, the films tend to wallow in maudlin earnestness.
[quote]Without him, the films tend to wallow in maudlin earnestness.<hr></blockquote>
You only notice how vital Han's character is to the series (not plot-wise, film-wise) when he's not there.
I always found the funniest thing Han said was his calling Leia (sp?) "your worship". Good stuff.
Someone above said that young Boba didn't look like the clones-in-training... untrue. It was the exact same kid playing the young clones. Lucas isn't THAT stupid.
Comments
<strong>You are old and cynical now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, careful there, bucko!
This is true, and while there may be an element of nostalgia in the fact I can watch the originals now and still see them as great movies, I think we're all capable of being objective about them.
You give a good example yourself, in Lord of the Rings. If I'm so cynical now, why did I feel the same kind of glow and sense of wonder seeing Fellowship at the age of 28 that I did seeing Empire Strikes Back when I was but 7?
If you apply the "rules" of filmmaking (You can mock the academia surrounding it, but those same rules of criticism are those the studios apply to creation) to the movies, the originals stand up very well regarding plot lines, character development, key moments, fundamental character traits, etc. The new movies, for the most part, do not.
The basic techniques used to generate fear surrounding characters (Vader, the ringwraiths in LotR) were not applied to any characters in AotC.
The heroics of the goodies which played such a big part in the original movies has been replaced by blind luck in the new movies (Compare the ingenuity of the shields being disabled on Endor and the subsequent attack on the Death Star with Jar Jar's ridiculous clowning on Naboo and Anakin's luck in destroying the control ship).
I know, I know, I'm just being old and cynical. I'd just like to add one more thing though...
Don't you think that Lucas is quite aware that his biggest audience for the new movies is not going to be kids? It's going to be the key demographic for that kind of movie, which is 18-35 year old men, the vast majority of whom will have seen the original movies...
As I said before, both Lucas and his producer admitted a major miscalculation with Phantom Menace, and they attempted to correct matters with AotC.
Of course, I don't fall into the demographic, so what do I know? I wanted to be Leia, though, and I had a crush on Han Solo. Still do, actually.
How about we ask your questions now, see how the people here shape up?
1. How old were you when you first saw Star Wars?
2. How old are you now?
Is there anyone who's gone to see Attack of the Clones without having an undying love for the original movies?
I was really disapointed by episode 1 : this Jar Jar beam is totally stupid and not fun at all. Nothing to do with the ewoks who where fun and lovely. The battle of the ewoks was serious (dispite some jokes) there was emotion in it. The batlle with Jar Jar beam is clown and totally stupid.
<strong>
Quite possibly because they were the last 2 jedi alive, and or because they knew luke, the offspring of the vader was the one that would keep the jedi alive. Just a guess. I prolly wasn't very articulate with my explanation.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You have the point : luke is the last chance and they have not time for his formation.
<strong>Quite possibly because they were the last 2 jedi alive, and or because they knew luke, the offspring of the vader was the one that would keep the jedi alive. Just a guess. I prolly wasn't very articulate with my explanation.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're probably right. Or perhaps it was the whole "Dad was a virgin birth and had super-high levels of midi-whatsits" thing?
Everything went downhill when the Ewoks appeared on screen...George lost it then. It became a kiddie movie. With kiddie toys and ideals. The Phantom Menace proved this with Jar Jar and the insertion of trendy characters and lines that echoed todays lingo. This IS supposed to be another universe far, far away...right?
I loved Star Wars in the beginning and the next two films kept me going...but The Phantom Menace was a pure Hollywood rip-off. George Lucas was a genius. But now he's another hack. But I guess by the box office results the blind will follow the blind.
For a better example of what I'm trying to say I'll have to let this reviewer explain...and after reading this...I'll spend my money on this movie (and the next one) at a rental store...
<a href="http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/ae/film/"; target="_blank">http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/ae/film/</a>;
<strong>
Question necessary to unlock this issue:
How old were you when you first saw Star Wars?
How old are you now?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bada bing!
That nails it.
Also, BECAUSE I've seen the other movies I'm GOING TO BE much more critical of this one. As with everything, the more we see the more we EXPECT.
As for the cinematography, I thought the picture was kinda mushy. I saw Roger Ebert last night and he said that the digital projection version was much cleaner than the film print.
I'm 33 now.
But, like Belle said, there IS a difference. There wasn't a sense of dumb-luck and slapstick bungling in the original trilogy that there was in "The Phantom Menace".
I mean, we went from skimming down a trench at a gazillion miles an hour, navigating asteroids by sheer flying ability and staging a two-part assault on the Empire. All with the help of stolen plans, daring acts of heroism and guts, etc.
Compare that with Jar Jar trying to kick a laser rifle off his foot and "accidentally" killing five or six battle droids. Or releasing those big energy balls, again "accidentally".
Worst of all, that brat in the Naboo starfighter, saying things like "let's spin...that's a good trick!" and other stupid, corny phrases. I've said it before, but that scene, had I directed it, would've been SO much cooler and classier. Instead of being played for yuks and asking the audience to believe a 10-year-old can be THAT damn lucky and unflappable, I would've played it straight and serious: I would've shown Anakin become very serious and determined, and you'd get the sense that he was feeling The Force kinda guide him. That would be seen as a pivotal moment in his life, where he himself realized that perhaps he was special and was indeed meant for great things.
Instead, Lucas played it as a half-ass video game with Saturday morning cartoon improbabilities and "Full House" wisecracks.
Old and cynical or not, you can't deny the HUGE difference in tone between that movie and the original trilogy.
THAT'S why most people were let down or shocked. I'm not so old and cynical that I can't be roused by a well-made, heartstopping "good vs. bad" popcorn movie.
The "comic relief" in the original trilogy was laid on carefully. It wasn't thick and it wasn't constant. Between Jar Jar in "Phantom" and that idiot Threepio in the last 30 minutes of "Clones", that really stinks up a movie.
"I'm quite beside myself", "this is such a drag", "is my head on straight?", etc.
ONE of those could've done the trick, George. Two of them would've been overkill. And you go and pack on about four or five.
Guess what? NOBODY laughed.
Jeez.
Well, if at every turn you are trying to analyze this movie with "He is going to be Darth Vader" it is quite a different movie.
Yet:By involving characters that reappear later, George Lucas gives another part of the Star Wars Universe. A history of where everyone came from. In the beginning, Uncle Owen could of been anyone, not necessarily his actual Uncle. Yet, now we know who he is and who is mother is and everything else like that.
Jar-Jar is a good character and he represents the gullible person who wants to belong.
Maybe, just maybe, if you saw these movies before the others, your outlook may be different. either better, or worse, but believe me, different
I'm now 37.
Personally I liked EP2 as much as I like the original trio (4,5,6). I'm no star wars geek either.
I go to movies to enjoy myself. I bet I could go to any movie and critisize it to death like some of you guys have, but I don't. I'm just thrilled that Lucas actually is finishing them...only wish he would do the final 3 like he originally said he would!!
Sidenote, did anyone ever read that Time article back in the early 80's about these movies that are coming out now? Interesting..too bad I can't remember what they were about
I expect AotC to last a bit longer, but Spidey definitely has legs.
<strong>I expect AotC to last a bit longer, but Spidey definitely has legs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, eight of them. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> Sorry, couldn't help it.
Saw Spidey again last night. What a comic book movie. As far as Star Wars is concerned...when the first one came out (and I saw it and the other three when they came out) it changed the genre of Sci-Fi on screen. Within a few months there were spin-offs on screen and TV (Battlestar Gallactica anyone?). Since then and after Lucas's hiatus the bar had been raised in production of films such as these.
Lucas (and ILM) was the trendsetter then but after movies like Aliens, Termiator, Matrix and LOTR he's gotten out of sync. Digital production won't work now unless all theatres can provide it. He also needs a lot of help in the screenwriting aspect of things. He should have another director take the project like he did with The Empire Strikes Back (which I think is the best of them all).
i think i figured out most of the plot from the previews alone. but that's okay. heck, i'll see the last movie, knowing the ending's going to be the republic winning, obi wan and yoda going into self-exile, and the skywalker kids getting sent into hiding. i'll still see it, though.
i also didn't hate episode one as much as others. the trade agreements and stuff made sense to me as palpatine used politcal influence to mask his true pruposes. made sense to me. but i did hate two things very, very much int he first movie:
1. anakin's immaculate conception. i guess george did this so he wouldn't have to answer any questions about movies about anakin's father, but geez, that was a tough pill to swallow.
2. the explanation of "the force" - the single worst thing george could do to the whole bloody series. it colors my view every time i hear someone refer to it anymore. no more mystery. no more allusions to "faith" and ones own pure soul. just something in the mitochondria. great. thanks george. you're an ass.
i really miss someone like han solo going around with a swagger calling the little brat "kid" and such. it gave the audience someone they could identify with when everyone is trying to talk like some shakespeare rejects.
george, you have your wife's phone number (she edited the original series, and, apparently, george's penchant for form over function). call her, and show her your next script BEFORE you make the movie. it'll make it that much better.
[ 05-19-2002: Message edited by: rok ]</p>
I was finally able to watch a new Star Wars movie and 'get into the galaxy'.
Pure fantasyland fun.
It's late and I can't get into all the things that I thought were cool - like the street scene on Coruscant, the Library, the detective work by Obi Wan, seeing Owen Lars for the first time, actually wondering if Dooku may be a early Rebel leader...nah, couldn't be, could he?
Yeah, I liked the movie. I wasn't there to see if the special effects could fool me (none of that "Gee, does that spaceship look "real" or "could that actually be a real Alien!? Why doesn't it look like a "real" alien" nonsense.)
I just wanted to be told and shown more of the star wars story. That happened. I'm content.
<strong>Saw AOTC on Sat. night and had a great time.
I was finally able to watch a new Star Wars movie and 'get into the galaxy'.
Pure fantasyland fun.
It's late and I can't get into all the things that I thought were cool - like the street scene on Coruscant, the Library, the detective work by Obi Wan, seeing Owen Lars for the first time, actually wondering if Dooku may be a early Rebel leader...nah, couldn't be, could he?
Yeah, I liked the movie. I wasn't there to see if the special effects could fool me (none of that "Gee, does that spaceship look "real" or "could that actually be a real Alien!? Why doesn't it look like a "real" alien" nonsense.)
I just wanted to be told and shown more of the star wars story. That happened. I'm content.
Bingo.
My own enthusiasm at the end was tempered by my girlfriend's severe dislike. hmmm
I came in with 2 demands:
1) Anakin do something evil.
2) I be entertained for the duration of the flick.
*SPOILER ALERT*
I got both.
--
Belle & Paul:
You'll notice that a lot of your references to the "dumb luck" stuff is in reference to The Phantom Menace. This thread is about Episode II.
Not dumb luck in Episode II:
- catching the assassin
- kicking the droid army's ass
Two fairly major events, far more important than Jar-Jar's killing a few droids. And in defense of Anakin's taking out the droid control ship... it's Star Wars. Notice how they manage to ALWAYS MISS the good guys' ships except to take out the goddam shield generators for a few gut-wrenching moments!?
The Slave One destroys EVERYTHING in that asteroid field except Obi-Wans little ship. riiiiight
Unique-to-EpisodeII Complaints:
- They didn't make the Tuscan Raiders scary enough! Those damned things made me shit my pants when I was little, loud and huge. This time they were just chilling 'round the campfire, we should've at least had one full screen shot of one yelling loudly to scare us.
- Didn't show Anakin killing them enough. We get the info about his killing women and children later in a decently-acted (for a Star Wars main character) scene. (Question: This guy just killed women and children.. yet you, as a potential love interest, EMBRACE him!?)
Likes:
- Yoda kicks ass! The crowd loved it, cheering when he struck that kick-ass Bruce Lee pose. Total money shot, I loved it.
- Anakin killing the Tuscan Raiders and the subsequent scene where he admits it. I thought that scene was pretty good and pretty decently acted (I know, I'm going to get tomatoes thrown at me).
- Awesome special effects. The only huge gaffe I noticed was Count Dooku's perfectly still coiffure while riding the goddam speeder. A few backdrops looked a little off, but I attribute that to my being a total nerd. (My girlfriend is a benchmark for technical aspects, she doesn't know or care about the flaws unless they're obvious, so I go with her assessment since she's not a nerd like me.)
*END SPOILER ALERT*
Overall I liked it a lot. I think it was a hell of a lot better than The Phantom Menace and also better than Jedi. A solid #3 in the series behind Empire and A New Hope.
<strong>You'll notice that a lot of your references to the "dumb luck" stuff is in reference to The Phantom Menace. This thread is about Episode II.
True, but someone suggested that the reason we see the older movies in a better light than the new ones is because we were younger and less cynical. I was just pointing out there are some technical reasons why the earlier movies are better.
I'm usually easily pleased at the movies. Give me a bucket of Dr. Pepper and some butter popcorn and I'll sit through anything and be entertained. I've seen a bunch of movies in the last few weeks and two of them committed the ultimate sin - they got so boring at points that I was looking round the theater to see what other people were doing. One was Panic Room (Which is disappointing as I like David Fincher), and the other was Attack of the Clones, which bored me to tears for about an hour to ninety minutes.
It was still worth seeing for the scenes on the cloning planet and the spectacular destruction of the Naboo ship at the start.
I'm going to see it again tomorrow with a different set of friends. It'll be interesting to see how it views a second time...
If the Star Wars series wasn't PG13 they'd have the option of tackling some more intense emotions. Anakins confession of violence to Padme was a good scene that probably could have been better had the Director crafted the scene better.
Dialogue has never been a strongsuit of Star Wars but it REALLY has been poor lately. Anakin is reduced to sounding like a stubborn brat claiming that "It's not fair!" or "Obi Wan is jealous" I'm not asking for Tolkien style dialoge but my goodness!
Padme is stiff as a board during the first half of the movie making her disclosure of "Deeply" loving Anakin seem out of place.
I'll echo Eugene's sentiments on inconsitencies. Yoda at the end must conjure up the Force to protect Obi and Anakin from being squashed..when common sense says move the bodies.
All in all I liked the movie much more than TPM and look forward to EP3
The end is so awesome. I am willing to look past the cheesy parts. I have to get he soundtrack soon! AND, I can't wait to get this ****er on DVD.
<strong>EP II sucked. Where is the GENIUS of Lucas? 4-6 were based on so many great works of literature (weren't they? Oedipus Rex, obviously
Uh, no. Try pulp sci-fi from the '50s and '60s. The best description of Star Wars itself that I can remember is "a western in space."
Now, there's nothing wrong with that. High camp can be fun. In fact, I didn't get disillusioned with SW because I found out it was campy (since that's kind of obvious), I got disillusioned when it started to look like Lucas was actually taking it seriously.
Also, the first series had Han Solo, who was just enough of a wisecracking smartass to keep things lively (and Harrison Ford was able to call Lucas on his BS, too). Without him, the films tend to wallow in maudlin earnestness.
You only notice how vital Han's character is to the series (not plot-wise, film-wise) when he's not there.
I always found the funniest thing Han said was his calling Leia (sp?) "your worship". Good stuff.
Someone above said that young Boba didn't look like the clones-in-training... untrue. It was the exact same kid playing the young clones. Lucas isn't THAT stupid.