I see it much like the Zune was a last ditch effort to use their 900 pound gorilla influence to gain some traction in the PMP market.
This is what a number of tech writers and analysts are saying. This is the same old Microsoft that announced a product months ahead, with no details, in an attempt to squash competitor sales. It used to work as many upstarts found out the hard way. People waited for the MS product, the upstart died on the vine, was purchased by MS which then released the product as their own. That isn't going to work this time. Consumers will not wait and the target moves too fast for that anyway. By the time the Surface is actually on the shelves it will most likely be a generation behind what Apple and Google are working on right now. Ballmer just doesn't get it. He's moving to where the puck is, not where it is going to be to quote Wayne Gretzky.
You should really learn to read. He never counterfeit $2 bills. Others thought he did, and he had an interesting chat with a Secret Service Agent (or FBI, forgot).
There was no reading involved, it was a video. I don't recall exactly, but I think it was some engadget interview, and I don't remember all of the details. It's been a while since I saw it.
If it was up to Woz, the vaunted Apple II would have been just another homebrew / hobbyist kit computer to impress his friends (instead of the finished & assembled computer that sold millions). Woz is beloved by geeks, but product vision was not his thing, something even Woz would not dispute. That said, let the Surface fans come out to gloat.
Geeks don't drive the industry anymore. They think they still do but they don't. Steve Jobs took them out of the picture and made them irrelevant. That's why the geeks here and on C|net can't deal with the success of Apple. What are the first words out of a geek's mouth when a new product is announced? Specs, specs, and more specs.
I like Woz. He is definitely his own person, and loves trying out different technology. One must remember however, he wanted to stick with the Apple ll platform, and wasn't really for the Mac. He is a geek, an engineer. But.....its one of those......what has he done for me lately kind of questions.
That's like saying Vint Cerf shouldn't talk about IPv6 since it's so far removed from IPv4.
Like Vint, Woz is one of the grandfathers of our technology. Without him, there would be no Apple.
...
No. Without Steve Jobs, there would arguably be no Apple.
Without Steve Wozniak, there would just be a different company very much like Apple, and founded by Steve Jobs and the second best chip guru in the Valley at the time.
I'm not diminishing what Woz has accomplished in the past, but numbers 2 - 6 require zero talent or effort in my opinion. Anybody with money can accomplish those. Of course, he had the talent to acquire that money in the first place, but somebody just giving away money or donating money is not impressive in my view and pales in comparison to the actual work that he did when he was still involved in the tech business.
Exactly... they require no talent -- but a broader [and quite possibly, better] interest in mankind than just making money and persuing technology.
When Apple went public, AIR, Jobs sold few if any of his 1/3 of AAPL. AIR, Woz sold more than 1/2 of his 1/3 of AAPL. Woz bought some toys, certainly -- but he immediately took care of his family (who were upper middle class). He didn't need to do that -- nor make any of his other humanitarian investments -- but he did.
A few of us figured that Woz "gave away" 1/2 his fortune while Jobs retained nearly 100% of his.
The question is: How much money do you need before you become a benefactor?
No one should attempt to minimize Jobs' contributions... nor should they, Woz'.
Abou Ben Adhem
Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:—
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said
"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still, and said "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."
The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,
Your particular line of defence is kind of silly, in my opinion. If somebody is a sports fan, are they not allowed to criticize an NBA player or a team, because the person criticizing has never played in the NBA?
I'm not the President of the USA, but does that mean that I can not criticize the President, because he has accomplished more than me, by simply being elected?
I don't care who makes retarded statements. If somebody makes a retarded statement, which Woz did in this case, then people have every right to criticize him for making that statement, regardless if the people criticizing have accomplished more or less than him. That's completely irrelevant. What is relevant is his retarded statement.
Thanks for proving my point, Apple ][.
You just said that my line of defense is kind of silly. And noted that it's your opinion. And you did that without criticizing me personally.
You're entitled to your opinion. As is everyone else. But that's a far cry from being entitled to make personal attacks on someone. Especially when the ones doing the attacking have no grounds to do it on. Sorta like an 11-year old yelling that Michael or Kobe or LeBron or whomever has no idea what they're doing. They can do it but it there's a good chance that they're gonna sound somewhere between ignorant and ridiculous.
My dog is also "self-effacing and self-deprecating."
But my dog didn't save Apple, for example. Or give us iPods. Or iPhones. Or iPads. Etc., etc.
Is your comment meant to make sense somehow?
The poster that I quoted had called Steve Wozniak pompous. I refuted that by pointing out that he's self-effacing and self-deprecating.
Not sure how you make a leap from comments on the pompous to self-effacing continuum to bringing up iPods, etc.
Or bringing up your dog. I'm not sure you understand what self-effacing or self-deprecating mean; but I can tell you that they don't have anything to do with licking yourself. Just in case that's what made you think of your dog...
We have to remember that Woz was a savant of sorts and brilliant at what he did, but he was no visionary a la Steve Jobs or Johnny Ive. Woz seems like the consummate tinkerer. He demonstrates a passion for new gadgets, new technology, etc., but he's not the guy Apple went to for any design decisions outside of how to optimize a motherboard.
Seems like a genuinely nice guy but his comments should not be regarded as representing Apple's ethos.
I find it ironic that Woz mentioned a couple of years ago that he would be open to any invitations from Apple if they were so inclined to try and employ him.
You may wish to stop singing the praises of Android, Mike Daisy, and Microsoft if you wish that to happen, Woz...
Woz is still an Apple employee. His ID number is 1.
The ID number of Steve was 0 before he left Apple - I don't know if he got that back when he returned.
If someone asks Woz what he thinks about this or that he will honestly answer what he really thinks and not what someone else thinks he should answer.
No. Without Steve Jobs, there would arguably be no Apple.
Without Steve Wozniak, there would just be a different company very much like Apple, and founded by Steve Jobs and the second best chip guru in the Valley at the time.
You're forgetting a few people who were responsible for Apple's success -- Mike Markkula, Mike "Scottie" Scott, Rod Holt, Gene Carter, Wil Houde...
At the time of the Apple I, there were lots of people (including Jobs and Woz) that were tinkering around building these new microcomputers. Many were talented, prescient and quite creative "engineers"...
But none of them had the knowledge, experience and money to build a company. That difference at Apple was Mike Markkula. He provided the financing, guidance, business acumen and reputation to attract the talent necessary to build a company -- which allowed the 2 Steves to do their thing.
No one can say what wuld have happened if any of the major players hadn't joined together to form Apple.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I see it much like the Zune was a last ditch effort to use their 900 pound gorilla influence to gain some traction in the PMP market.
This is what a number of tech writers and analysts are saying. This is the same old Microsoft that announced a product months ahead, with no details, in an attempt to squash competitor sales. It used to work as many upstarts found out the hard way. People waited for the MS product, the upstart died on the vine, was purchased by MS which then released the product as their own. That isn't going to work this time. Consumers will not wait and the target moves too fast for that anyway. By the time the Surface is actually on the shelves it will most likely be a generation behind what Apple and Google are working on right now. Ballmer just doesn't get it. He's moving to where the puck is, not where it is going to be to quote Wayne Gretzky.
I'm surprised that this quote hasn't been lit up yet!
That's like saying Vint Cerf shouldn't talk about IPv6 since it's so far removed from IPv4.
Like Vint, Woz is one of the grandfathers of our technology. Without him, there would be no Apple.
SO HAVE SOME GOD DAMN RESPECT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cronked
Two questions:
1. Why does Woz keep talking about technology as if he is relevant and influencing innovation?
2. Why do people keep quoting Woz as if he is relevant and influencing innovation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65C816
You should really learn to read. He never counterfeit $2 bills. Others thought he did, and he had an interesting chat with a Secret Service Agent (or FBI, forgot).
There was no reading involved, it was a video. I don't recall exactly, but I think it was some engadget interview, and I don't remember all of the details. It's been a while since I saw it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
The Microsoft Surface is the future of computing.
Oh how wrong you are. If anything it is a step back in time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
If it was up to Woz, the vaunted Apple II would have been just another homebrew / hobbyist kit computer to impress his friends (instead of the finished & assembled computer that sold millions). Woz is beloved by geeks, but product vision was not his thing, something even Woz would not dispute. That said, let the Surface fans come out to gloat.
Geeks don't drive the industry anymore. They think they still do but they don't. Steve Jobs took them out of the picture and made them irrelevant. That's why the geeks here and on C|net can't deal with the success of Apple. What are the first words out of a geek's mouth when a new product is announced? Specs, specs, and more specs.
I like Woz. He is definitely his own person, and loves trying out different technology. One must remember however, he wanted to stick with the Apple ll platform, and wasn't really for the Mac. He is a geek, an engineer. But.....its one of those......what has he done for me lately kind of questions.
OK, I retract that part of my comment. Your point being well taken. The rest having to do with Wozniak paraphrasing Jobs's own words still stands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135
That's like saying Vint Cerf shouldn't talk about IPv6 since it's so far removed from IPv4.
Like Vint, Woz is one of the grandfathers of our technology. Without him, there would be no Apple.
...
No. Without Steve Jobs, there would arguably be no Apple.
Without Steve Wozniak, there would just be a different company very much like Apple, and founded by Steve Jobs and the second best chip guru in the Valley at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmhisey
Woz, from everything that I've ever seen or read, is the exact opposite of pompous. He's self-effacing and self-deprecating.
Ok. And?
My dog is also "self-effacing and self-deprecating."
But my dog didn't save Apple, for example. Or give us iPods. Or iPhones. Or iPads. Etc., etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135
SO HAVE SOME GOD DAMN RESPECT.
Where's his respect for a dead person who is not here to answer back or refute his dumb comment?
Steve Jobs would not have liked his comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
I'm not diminishing what Woz has accomplished in the past, but numbers 2 - 6 require zero talent or effort in my opinion. Anybody with money can accomplish those. Of course, he had the talent to acquire that money in the first place, but somebody just giving away money or donating money is not impressive in my view and pales in comparison to the actual work that he did when he was still involved in the tech business.
Exactly... they require no talent -- but a broader [and quite possibly, better] interest in mankind than just making money and persuing technology.
When Apple went public, AIR, Jobs sold few if any of his 1/3 of AAPL. AIR, Woz sold more than 1/2 of his 1/3 of AAPL. Woz bought some toys, certainly -- but he immediately took care of his family (who were upper middle class). He didn't need to do that -- nor make any of his other humanitarian investments -- but he did.
A few of us figured that Woz "gave away" 1/2 his fortune while Jobs retained nearly 100% of his.
The question is: How much money do you need before you become a benefactor?
No one should attempt to minimize Jobs' contributions... nor should they, Woz'.
Abou Ben Adhem
Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:—
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said
"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still, and said "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."
The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135
SO HAVE SOME GOD DAMN RESPECT.
I don't want to, though. My respect is saved for others, who, incidentally, aren't Steve Wozniak. Sorry.
Thanks for proving my point, Apple ][.
You just said that my line of defense is kind of silly. And noted that it's your opinion. And you did that without criticizing me personally.
You're entitled to your opinion. As is everyone else. But that's a far cry from being entitled to make personal attacks on someone. Especially when the ones doing the attacking have no grounds to do it on. Sorta like an 11-year old yelling that Michael or Kobe or LeBron or whomever has no idea what they're doing. They can do it but it there's a good chance that they're gonna sound somewhere between ignorant and ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Woz has some problems IMHO.
at least is not brainwashed to think that Apple products are the best
Is your comment meant to make sense somehow?
The poster that I quoted had called Steve Wozniak pompous. I refuted that by pointing out that he's self-effacing and self-deprecating.
Not sure how you make a leap from comments on the pompous to self-effacing continuum to bringing up iPods, etc.
Or bringing up your dog. I'm not sure you understand what self-effacing or self-deprecating mean; but I can tell you that they don't have anything to do with licking yourself. Just in case that's what made you think of your dog...
We have to remember that Woz was a savant of sorts and brilliant at what he did, but he was no visionary a la Steve Jobs or Johnny Ive. Woz seems like the consummate tinkerer. He demonstrates a passion for new gadgets, new technology, etc., but he's not the guy Apple went to for any design decisions outside of how to optimize a motherboard.
Seems like a genuinely nice guy but his comments should not be regarded as representing Apple's ethos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR
I find it ironic that Woz mentioned a couple of years ago that he would be open to any invitations from Apple if they were so inclined to try and employ him.
You may wish to stop singing the praises of Android, Mike Daisy, and Microsoft if you wish that to happen, Woz...
Woz is still an Apple employee. His ID number is 1.
The ID number of Steve was 0 before he left Apple - I don't know if he got that back when he returned.
If someone asks Woz what he thinks about this or that he will honestly answer what he really thinks and not what someone else thinks he should answer.
I appreciate that a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
No. Without Steve Jobs, there would arguably be no Apple.
Without Steve Wozniak, there would just be a different company very much like Apple, and founded by Steve Jobs and the second best chip guru in the Valley at the time.
You're forgetting a few people who were responsible for Apple's success -- Mike Markkula, Mike "Scottie" Scott, Rod Holt, Gene Carter, Wil Houde...
At the time of the Apple I, there were lots of people (including Jobs and Woz) that were tinkering around building these new microcomputers. Many were talented, prescient and quite creative "engineers"...
But none of them had the knowledge, experience and money to build a company. That difference at Apple was Mike Markkula. He provided the financing, guidance, business acumen and reputation to attract the talent necessary to build a company -- which allowed the 2 Steves to do their thing.
No one can say what wuld have happened if any of the major players hadn't joined together to form Apple.
Yeah, sure. Microsoft is Just Like Apple, with Ballmer in the part of Steve Jobs. I'm gonna barf.