dutchlord said:

Other companies are faster in innovating the phone camera system. 

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

verne arase said:

xRAHx said:

My conclusion:

Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.

Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc. 

The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.

It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.

Demographically speaking, China will be disappearing in the next ten years - probably sooner.

When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.

When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.

Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.

Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.

The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.

Y'all ought to watch some Peter Zeihan on geopolitics - it can be quite illuminating.

BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.

I'd argue that the supply chain, which employs millions of relatively well paid Chinese workers, is the reason that Apple is still allowed.

I try and catch Peter every morning, and I also watch Joe Blog, plus a few lesser known economists and economic observers. China didn't get rich before it got old, and worse, it is under a totalitarian leader,

Tom's Hardware had post that I found very interesting as it confirmed what had been both expected and rumored;

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/huawei-reportedly-facing-bad-ai-chip-yields-for-processors-made-at-chinese-fab-smic-report

Huawei reportedly facing bad AI chip yields for processors made at Chinese fab SMIC: Report

Four out of five Ascend 910B AI processors reportedly have defects.

And how is that relevant to an article on the EU??? 

Some background that you will find even more 'interesting' and something you casually failed to mention. 

I won't respond to any more of your thread derailing attempts. 

The Ascend 910B has been in production for a while now. Yields are an issue at SMIC but it's old news. 

I seriously doubt the 4 out of 5 claim but even if it were true, it still means the defective parts can very likely be used elsewhere. 

The story behind the yields is demand which is very high, and even late last year (when this news actually first hit the internet) most orders had already been shipped! 

In fact, Baidu alone is claimed to have ordered 1,600 Ascend 910B chips in August last year - with over 60% already shipped when the news broke. iFlyTek placed another large order and domestic demand hasn't slipped since either. 

Just last week Huawei said the immediate focus is not on nodes but optimisation although there have been persistent rumours of a 5nm chip this year. 

That's because parallel to current manufacturing capacity at SMIC, Huawei is building out a gigantic multi-billion dollar chip development and R&D facility in Shanghai. They are simply in the process of bringing everything together. As TSMC in the US knows, it takes time to build huge facilities. 

From your same source:

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/huawei-builds-major-tool-randd-center-in-shanghai-to-develop-lithography-and-fab-equipment-report-says

It's almost finished now and you don't put that kind of project into operation on a whim. Clearly, it will serve a purpose. 

The car division is also seeing massive YoY order growth and earlier this year it was the Huawei MDC chip (Ascend) solutions that were unable to keep up with demand. That seems to have been balanced out now but demand is still growing as new models come to market. 

https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/26/aito-m9-exceeds-100000-orders/

And more recently the Stelato S9 which is aiming for 120,000 unit capacity for the luxury model. 

Plus booming sales of the Mate 60/Pura 70 phone series. 

Capacity to satisfy such demand is always going to be an issue if demand doesn't fall off, but I'd say that's a nice problem to have. 

Nvidia mentioned a company and described it as a formidable competitor. That was Huawei. I'd say Nvidia has its finger on the AI Chip pulse better than you. 

Even with yield issues, Huawei is taking sales away from them. Do you think yields (independent of current state) have improved or worsened since last year? 

I ask because more and more HiSilicon chipsets are rolling out of SMIC. 

If you read Zeihan every day without contrasting his views you have a seriously unbalanced viewpoint. At the very least you should be taking in some of commentary debunking what he says. Then, and only then, should you form an opinion. 

He's an author trying to sell books. He's a content creator trying to sell views. And hasn't he been saying the same thing forever without it actually happening? 

But don't answer that. This is about the EU. 

Pretty sure that even you would agree that Western investment, notably EU investment, in semiconductor tech is worthwhile, and the fact that Huawei, SMIC, et al, are having difficulty transitioning to 5nm DUV multi patterning, kind of supports those investmenst. See ASML stock, indicating that sales are very good, without China.

You seem unaware that China's economy has slowed greatly, and Verne noted that China likely overstated its population by 100m, which I have also seen. I don't worry about debunking Zeihan, and you evidently don't either, since this would be an opportunity to do so.

Frankly, Zeihan has no credibility left (not that he ever had much to start with) and you having read something somewhere (given where you are picking up news from) is worthless. 

I didn't link to the huge amount of Zeihan debunking because this is about the EU! 

The same with the Ascend 910B.

It isn't the place. 

LOL!

You always go with the "it isn't the place" when you are wrong.,,

You are much too invested in China, and even the EU is having to roll back its relationship with China.

Except I'm not wrong. I gave information on the Ascend 910B and Zeihan is, frankly, a fool. Search: "Zeihan" "debunked".

I just see no point in talking about about something that has literally nothing to do with the topic. Why is that so hard for you to understand? 

Open up your own thread and I'll gladly set you straight but this thread isn't the place. 

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

verne arase said:

xRAHx said:

My conclusion:

Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.

Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc. 

The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.

It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.

Demographically speaking, China will be disappearing in the next ten years - probably sooner.

When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.

When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.

Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.

Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.

The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.

Y'all ought to watch some Peter Zeihan on geopolitics - it can be quite illuminating.

BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.

I'd argue that the supply chain, which employs millions of relatively well paid Chinese workers, is the reason that Apple is still allowed.

I try and catch Peter every morning, and I also watch Joe Blog, plus a few lesser known economists and economic observers. China didn't get rich before it got old, and worse, it is under a totalitarian leader,

Tom's Hardware had post that I found very interesting as it confirmed what had been both expected and rumored;

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/huawei-reportedly-facing-bad-ai-chip-yields-for-processors-made-at-chinese-fab-smic-report

Huawei reportedly facing bad AI chip yields for processors made at Chinese fab SMIC: Report

Four out of five Ascend 910B AI processors reportedly have defects.

And how is that relevant to an article on the EU??? 

Some background that you will find even more 'interesting' and something you casually failed to mention. 

I won't respond to any more of your thread derailing attempts. 

The Ascend 910B has been in production for a while now. Yields are an issue at SMIC but it's old news. 

I seriously doubt the 4 out of 5 claim but even if it were true, it still means the defective parts can very likely be used elsewhere. 

The story behind the yields is demand which is very high, and even late last year (when this news actually first hit the internet) most orders had already been shipped! 

In fact, Baidu alone is claimed to have ordered 1,600 Ascend 910B chips in August last year - with over 60% already shipped when the news broke. iFlyTek placed another large order and domestic demand hasn't slipped since either. 

Just last week Huawei said the immediate focus is not on nodes but optimisation although there have been persistent rumours of a 5nm chip this year. 

That's because parallel to current manufacturing capacity at SMIC, Huawei is building out a gigantic multi-billion dollar chip development and R&D facility in Shanghai. They are simply in the process of bringing everything together. As TSMC in the US knows, it takes time to build huge facilities. 

From your same source:

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/huawei-builds-major-tool-randd-center-in-shanghai-to-develop-lithography-and-fab-equipment-report-says

It's almost finished now and you don't put that kind of project into operation on a whim. Clearly, it will serve a purpose. 

The car division is also seeing massive YoY order growth and earlier this year it was the Huawei MDC chip (Ascend) solutions that were unable to keep up with demand. That seems to have been balanced out now but demand is still growing as new models come to market. 

https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/26/aito-m9-exceeds-100000-orders/

And more recently the Stelato S9 which is aiming for 120,000 unit capacity for the luxury model. 

Plus booming sales of the Mate 60/Pura 70 phone series. 

Capacity to satisfy such demand is always going to be an issue if demand doesn't fall off, but I'd say that's a nice problem to have. 

Nvidia mentioned a company and described it as a formidable competitor. That was Huawei. I'd say Nvidia has its finger on the AI Chip pulse better than you. 

Even with yield issues, Huawei is taking sales away from them. Do you think yields (independent of current state) have improved or worsened since last year? 

I ask because more and more HiSilicon chipsets are rolling out of SMIC. 

If you read Zeihan every day without contrasting his views you have a seriously unbalanced viewpoint. At the very least you should be taking in some of commentary debunking what he says. Then, and only then, should you form an opinion. 

He's an author trying to sell books. He's a content creator trying to sell views. And hasn't he been saying the same thing forever without it actually happening? 

But don't answer that. This is about the EU. 

Pretty sure that even you would agree that Western investment, notably EU investment, in semiconductor tech is worthwhile, and the fact that Huawei, SMIC, et al, are having difficulty transitioning to 5nm DUV multi patterning, kind of supports those investmenst. See ASML stock, indicating that sales are very good, without China.

You seem unaware that China's economy has slowed greatly, and Verne noted that China likely overstated its population by 100m, which I have also seen. I don't worry about debunking Zeihan, and you evidently don't either, since this would be an opportunity to do so.

Frankly, Zeihan has no credibility left (not that he ever had much to start with) and you having read something somewhere (given where you are picking up news from) is worthless. 

I didn't link to the huge amount of Zeihan debunking because this is about the EU! 

The same with the Ascend 910B.

It isn't the place. 

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

verne arase said:

xRAHx said:

My conclusion:

Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.

Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc. 

The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.

It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.

Demographically speaking, China will be disappearing in the next ten years - probably sooner.

When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.

When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.

Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.

Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.

The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.

Y'all ought to watch some Peter Zeihan on geopolitics - it can be quite illuminating.

BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.

I'd argue that the supply chain, which employs millions of relatively well paid Chinese workers, is the reason that Apple is still allowed.

I try and catch Peter every morning, and I also watch Joe Blog, plus a few lesser known economists and economic observers. China didn't get rich before it got old, and worse, it is under a totalitarian leader,

Tom's Hardware had post that I found very interesting as it confirmed what had been both expected and rumored;

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/huawei-reportedly-facing-bad-ai-chip-yields-for-processors-made-at-chinese-fab-smic-report

Huawei reportedly facing bad AI chip yields for processors made at Chinese fab SMIC: Report

Four out of five Ascend 910B AI processors reportedly have defects.

And how is that relevant to an article on the EU??? 

Some background that you will find even more 'interesting' and something you casually failed to mention. 

I won't respond to any more of your thread derailing attempts. 

The Ascend 910B has been in production for a while now. Yields are an issue at SMIC but it's old news. 

I seriously doubt the 4 out of 5 claim but even if it were true, it still means the defective parts can very likely be used elsewhere. 

The story behind the yields is demand which is very high, and even late last year (when this news actually first hit the internet) most orders had already been shipped! 

In fact, Baidu alone is claimed to have ordered 1,600 Ascend 910B chips in August last year - with over 60% already shipped when the news broke. iFlyTek placed another large order and domestic demand hasn't slipped since either. 

Just last week Huawei said the immediate focus is not on nodes but optimisation although there have been persistent rumours of a 5nm chip this year. 

That's because parallel to current manufacturing capacity at SMIC, Huawei is building out a gigantic multi-billion dollar chip development and R&D facility in Shanghai. They are simply in the process of bringing everything together. As TSMC in the US knows, it takes time to build huge facilities. 

From your same source:

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/huawei-builds-major-tool-randd-center-in-shanghai-to-develop-lithography-and-fab-equipment-report-says

It's almost finished now and you don't put that kind of project into operation on a whim. Clearly, it will serve a purpose. 

The car division is also seeing massive YoY order growth and earlier this year it was the Huawei MDC chip (Ascend) solutions that were unable to keep up with demand. That seems to have been balanced out now but demand is still growing as new models come to market. 

https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/26/aito-m9-exceeds-100000-orders/

And more recently the Stelato S9 which is aiming for 120,000 unit capacity for the luxury model. 

Plus booming sales of the Mate 60/Pura 70 phone series. 

Capacity to satisfy such demand is always going to be an issue if demand doesn't fall off, but I'd say that's a nice problem to have. 

Nvidia mentioned a company and described it as a formidable competitor. That was Huawei. I'd say Nvidia has its finger on the AI Chip pulse better than you. 

Even with yield issues, Huawei is taking sales away from them. Do you think yields (independent of current state) have improved or worsened since last year? 

I ask because more and more HiSilicon chipsets are rolling out of SMIC. 

If you read Zeihan every day without contrasting his views you have a seriously unbalanced viewpoint. At the very least you should be taking in some of commentary debunking what he says. Then, and only then, should you form an opinion. 

He's an author trying to sell books. He's a content creator trying to sell views. And hasn't he been saying the same thing forever without it actually happening? 

But don't answer that. This is about the EU.